So what is the Fedora Lounge all about?

[Baron Kurtz]

Quoth Scott:

We'll also be working to keep the other forums in keeping with what The Fedora Lounge is all about.

When I joined, many moons ago, this was a place suited to what i was looking for. Educated discussion of the more nuanced, perhaps ephemeral, details of vintage clothing and hats. There was a core group of very knowledgable (in terms of vintage clothing) members who'd been around a while before i joined, and a few who joined pretty much simultaneously with myself. And one notable member - who shall remain un-named - who perhaps holds the record for rapidity of running up a post-count on an internet forum. The suits section was in its infancy, but the few threads in there were gold mines of information. Read the early pages of the "Show us Your Suits". Real information resides there. Speculation is there, and it's discussed and adopted or rejected, based upon the information to hand. It's been a long time since i looked at a thread in the suits section and felt truly that i was learning something new. This cannot be good.

Arguments were there and they could get quite heated, but they were dealt with like adults. Very little moderation was necessary. The increase in the need for moderation in threads about suits, jackets and other very unimportant topics must say something to you? One of the more common flash points i've noticed is in the realm of information dissemination. There has grown a core of members who seemingly cannot accept that they don't know much, and that an opinion is not treated as an equal to an educated opinion. A member with primary sources and years of research at their back is shooting fish in a barrel. It is very difficult not to sound patronising in this situation as essentially everything said by the educated member will be perceived as patronisation by the member who thinks they know what they're talking about.

Personally i'm not very interested in a "vintage community". I am interested in the finer details of Golden Era clothing and hats. I have no interest in being a part of a crutch for people who're hanging around just because there's nowhere else on "the internets" where they feel comfortable. But the FLounge has drifted inexorably towards the "community" outlook. We're all in this together! What the hell are we in together? Most of us wouldn't be friends if we actually knew each other. You sure as damnit wouldn't like me very much. I guess i don't understand the need to group together.


What i came here for is still here, but it's ever-diminishing. It's not just that long-time members have left. It is that those who have left or stopped posting are those with the information to share. They have not been replaced by equals. The suits section is almost a wasteland. Another "Look what i bought on eBay" thread every other minute, accompanied by terrible pictures. "Hats" is going the same way. "Outerwear" is being held together by a couple of leather jacket threads, and there's a good zipper thread in "general attire"; in these we're battling through and getting somewhere with progressing the 'accumulated knowledge' of the field.

So, i'm still getting something out of the FLounge. But the returns are diminishing. Sorry for the long ramble.

bk

 

[SamMarlowPI]

i'm sad and depressed now...b/c i'm a newbie and realized i have not contributed much to the FLounge...
well written Baron...

 

[Baron Kurtz]

I'm not railing against non-contributors. More against spurious contributors; water muddyers. I understand fully that not everyone will have the same level of knowledge as the members i'm talking about in Post No.1 ^^ Neither am i arguing against people who ask lots of questions. Questions are great! Get into the specifics of the garments you're interested in!

I have been stimulated by the thread that Scott started and that got closed yesterday. I see what the bartenders are getting at. And the demise of that thread was a prime example of what i was taking about above.

bk

 

[Justdog]

Posts

i'm sad and depressed now...b/c i'm a newbie and realized i have not contributed much to the FLounge...
well written Baron...

Nothing is more positive than a negative

 

[SamMarlowPI]

I'm not railing against non-contributors. More against spurious contributors; water muddyers. I understand fully that not everyone will have the same level of knowledge as the members i'm talking about in Post No.1 ^^

I have been stimulated by the thread that Scott started and that got closed yesterday. I see what the bartenders are getting at. And the demise of that thread was a prime example of what i was taking about above.

bk

oh i know...you just made me realize...

 

[SamMarlowPI]

Nothing is more positive than a negative

...

 

[Jay]

Funny, I was just thinking about this the other day. When I first joined this place, it seemed there were new threads almost daily consisting of things I never knew about clothes and hats. Strange suits, shoes made of materials I'd never imagined, hats in colors I'd never thought existed. I think that as of late, the style thing has been sort of generalized.

Less about clothes and more about this well, community. More than that, I remember a time when lapel width, inward-facing pleats vs. normal, fish-tail backs, and small details like that were practically talked to death. I think there was even a thread on vintage socks. Not so anymore, it seems.

 

[Vardeman Sneed]

My thoughts:

I joined this forum to learn more about dress hats and men's dress wear. I personally have very little interest in things 'vintage', other than the history of the aforementioned hats and dress wear.

I do admit that I enjoy reading some of the non-clothing threads, and have posted on them. However, I try not to post unless I can add value to the thread. I have in fact deleted some of my posts because they added no value.

Maybe there should be two parts to the Fedora Lounge; an information section, and a social section. Though trying to monitor the information section to exclude social postings would be a herculean task.

60

 

[reetpleat]

Quoth Scott:



When I joined, many moons ago, this was a place suited to what i was looking for. Educated discussion of the more nuanced, perhaps ephemeral, details of vintage clothing and hats. There was a core group of very knowledgable (in terms of vintage clothing) members who'd been around a while before i joined, and a few who joined pretty much simultaneously with myself. And one notable member - who shall remain un-named - who perhaps holds the record for rapidity of running up a post-count on an internet forum. The suits section was in its infancy, but the few threads in there were gold mines of information. Read the early pages of the "Show us Your Suits". Real information resides there. Speculation is there, and it's discussed and adopted or rejected, based upon the information to hand. It's been a long time since i looked at a thread in the suits section and felt truly that i was learning something new. This cannot be good.

Arguments were there and they could get quite heated, but they were dealt with like adults. Very little moderation was necessary. The increase in the need for moderation in threads about suits, jackets and other very unimportant topics must say something to you? One of the more common flash points i've noticed is in the realm of information dissemination. There has grown a core of members who seemingly cannot accept that they don't know much, and that an opinion is not treated as an equal to an educated opinion. A member with primary sources and years of research at their back is shooting fish in a barrel. It is very difficult not to sound patronising in this situation as essentially everything said by the educated member will be perceived as patronisation by the member who thinks they know what they're talking about.

Personally i'm not very interested in a "vintage community". I am interested in the finer details of Golden Era clothing and hats. I have no interest in being a part of a crutch for people who're hanging around just because there's nowhere else on "the internets" where they feel comfortable. But the FLounge has drifted inexorably towards the "community" outlook. We're all in this together! What the hell are we in together? Most of us wouldn't be friends if we actually knew each other. You sure as damnit wouldn't like me very much. I guess i don't understand the need to group together.


What i came here for is still here, but it's ever-diminishing. It's not just that long-time members have left. It is that those who have left or stopped posting are those with the information to share. They have not been replaced by equals. The suits section is almost a wasteland. Another "Look what i bought on eBay" thread every other minute, accompanied by terrible pictures. "Hats" is going the same way. "Outerwear" is being held together by a couple of leather jacket threads, and there's a good zipper thread in "general attire"; in these we're battling through and getting somewhere with progressing the 'accumulated knowledge' of the field.

So, i'm still getting something out of the FLounge. But the returns are diminishing. Sorry for the long ramble.

bk

I appreciate your opinion, but a few thoughts. One is that you may not have as much to learn anymore. If you were still new, you may well find a lot of good info. But now, as an old hand, you may not find much that is new to you.

Secondly, I do think many people here would be friends. Some because they have similar personalities, some becaue they do not fit into modern culture so they would group together at the misfit table, some would be friends only in terms of collecting.

I know I have enjoyed the Portland and Seattle gatherings. I also feel that I am a parto f a community here. It is not really important to me, but it is not that important that I think I would be friends with everyone in real life. The simple matter is there are people here I enjoy chatting with.

Thirdly, I am not al ltha into learning all the fine points of suit tailoring. I know a lot and have seen and own a heck of a lot of great stuff. But when I was in San Francisco, we used to lvoe sitting around sharing, not knowledge, but awareness and love of the stuff. We would sit around a bar going, check out this new hat. Ooh, cool. I like the way you crowned it. Great ribbon. check out the belted back of this jacket I just bought.

Well, i don't have friends like that in Seattle, so I am glad to have fellow vintag elovers to just talk about and share with. I don't need to learn all the finer points. Just share my love of it all. If someone I know just bought a great suit on ebay, cool. I would love to see it. but prefer to see it on them in dayligint, as you have pointed out. Not so crazy about the modern stuff, but I just ignore it.

But hey, glad youare still around even if you are not getting as much out of it as you used to. You are always a welcome voice.

 

[Jovan]

Personally i'm not very interested in a "vintage community". I am interested in the finer details of Golden Era clothing and hats. I have no interest in being a part of a crutch for people who're hanging around just because there's nowhere else on "the internets" where they feel comfortable. But the FLounge has drifted inexorably towards the "community" outlook. We're all in this together! What the hell are we in together? Most of us wouldn't be friends if we actually knew each other. You sure as damnit wouldn't like me very much. I guess i don't understand the need to group together.

Well, maybe you are not one for socialising, but the Queen Mary events and other people meeting up in their areas sure says a lot about the Lounge's members -- including the long standing and knowledgeable ones. As a matter of fact, a member I talk to didn't have a very high opinion of some of the members until she met them in person at the QM event. What exactly is wrong with a community anyways? You say it like it's a bad thing. [huh]

EDIT: Another thought. I think it will get to this point with any forum that starts out simply discusses information about a subject with each other. Otherwise, what is it? A FAQ about vintage clothing? That doesn't sound very fun to me! We can have a joke with one another, agree or disagree, share our latest finds, ask questions, and socialise so isn't a simple Q & A session. I'm not sure what you are expecting, as this is what having a forum is all about.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

I use "community" in the very specific internet sense. Very much a construction of the internet which exists nowhere else. I am not one for make-believe. I have the feeling that there are many people who are here simply for the community - with the style/glamour/vintage/golden era being peripheral at best - for the crutch; the idea that they have friends here . . . friends that they have never met.

I don't think it's healthy for the people or for the forum.

bk

 

[Baron Kurtz]

I might add that the WWII room was once quite vibrant, and i enjoyed sitting back, not taking part in the threads, just reading the discussions. The room is now dead or dying on its arse from what i can see.

And i don't think it's just natural evolution; there is a definite trend away from informative, information-based and sometimes research-based posts/threads. The trend i'm seeing is towards the type of "you hang in there; we're all in it together", "i don't fit in anywhere else" social networking threads, or phowaaaaar "Ladies/Men of the Lounge"-type threads. This shift of focus reflects, of course, the changing FLounger demographic. But i think it is also drawing the FLounge away from its original purpose ("what it's all about").

I disagree profoundly with the notion that we're in anything together. I posit that a "community" worthy of the name cannot exist on the internet; An internet "community" is merely a crutch.

bk - does not exist. A mere figment is he.

 

[CharlesB]

I might add that the WWII room was once quite vibrant, and i enjoyed sitting back, not taking part in the threads, just reading the discussions. The room is now dead or dying on its arse from what i can see.

And i don't think it's just natural evolution; there is a definite trend away from informative, information-based and sometimes research-based posts/threads. The trend i'm seeing is towards the type of "you hang in there; we're all in it together", "i don't fit in anywhere else" social networking threads, or phowaaaaar "Ladies/Men of the Lounge"-type threads. This shift of focus reflects, of course, the changing FLounger demographic. But i think it is also drawing the FLounge away from its original purpose ("what it's all about").

I disagree profoundly with the notion that we're in anything together. I posit that a "community" worthy of the name cannot exist on the internet; An internet "community" is merely a crutch.

bk - does not exist. A mere figment is he.

I would say one of the great benefits of this board is that with an abundance of people with similar outlooks, tastes, etc. this place is an invaluable sounding board if you will. We can get opinions on things, play around with aesthetics, and throw ideas back and forth in a very productive way. When there is a shared aesthetic sensibility this can be a very good thing. That being said, when one is used to that back and forth it DOES breed a community or comradery that is akin to real life.

The one thing that I find fault with in all of this is that you appeared to have taken your general opinions about the nature of the internet and in an act of transference used this board as a general focusing point for that disposition

 

[PolkaDotMeggie]

Sorry we don't all fit in your type of "community". I guess it is the nature of humans to socialize and be attracted to others we feel we are equals to. I highly doubt it was ever the intention of any particular Lounger to offend your sensibilities.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

The one thing that I find fault with in all of this is that you appeared to have taken your general opinions about the nature of the internet and in an act of transference used this board as a general focusing point for that disposition

You're almost there. I've taken a rather general opinion about the nature of the internet *and a notion of how people treat internet boards/fora/messaging sites, in my view inappropriately* and in an act of analysis related that to what appears to be a trend in this particular website. Result: discussion.

bk

 

[scotrace]

The most difficult part of assembling the "classic best" of the Lounge thread is that there is so very, very much from the earlier days that is excellent. Trying to find all I remember has proven daunting. A chill came to me earlier today when I realized that so much of what Marc Chevalier taught us is buried under the weight of comparatively lightweight material -exactly as we - and he - feared.

I hope my friends here will help with the excavation, and post what they find there.

 

[CharlesB]

You're almost there. I've taken a rather general opinion about the nature of the internet *and a notion of how people treat internet boards, in my view inappropriately* and in an act of analysis related that to what appears to be a trend in this particular website. Result: discussion.

bk

From everything I've seen myself and from what I've read in the social science journals (as a grad researcher I have no other option) the general concensus is that for better or worse, the internet is a glimpse into a near libertarian-anarchist self organizing that we also inferred from the "state of nature" but without apriori insight could never actually know or observe.

What has been shown is that in pretty much every way shape and form, the development of communities on the internet is wholly organic and is often a mirror image for how we self organize in the real world.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

I have been consistently challenged by the notion that true *communities* can form amongst people who don't know each other; who have never, and will never meet each other. I haven't seen estimates - but i'd love to see some - of how many people in real life live up to their internet personae. So, the notion of community is confounded (and i agree this is also the case in "real life") by the probability that a large number of members of that community are "faking it".

Sure, we can talk about things, and we might agree. But surely "community" suggests a bit more than that?

Why in God's name are we awake?

bk

 

[KY Gentleman]

I kind of get the feeling that maybe you would like this to be like the Lounges "good old days" when we weren't all here.....

 

[CharlesB]

I have been consistently challenged by the notion that true *communities* can form amongst people who don't know each other; who have never, and will never meet each other. I haven't seen estimates - but i'd love to see some - of how many people in real life live up to their internet personae. So, the notion of community is confounded (and i agree this is also the case in "real life") by the probability that a large number of members of that community are "faking it".

Sure, we can talk about things, and we might agree. But surely "community" suggests a bit more than that?

Why in God's name are we awake?

bk

Cuz since there was nothing on the telly earlier I chose to have 1 or6 hot cups of tea given the appalling weather outside