So who are the Aero Fanboys ( and girls)

Discussion in 'Outerwear' started by Plumbline, Dec 26, 2014.

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  1. nick123

    nick123 I'll Lock Up

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    I haven't been around on this forum as long as the old timers, but my impression is that the reason why Aero is such a centerpiece here has a lot to do with the fact that they offer the widest range of utility and military jackets in the most combinations of leather/lining/options, so naturally they'd bring in a lot of discussion.
    Going back to the old threads, it was really mostly mil spec jackets from different makers and Aero for the civilian sector. The "jacket explosion" has taken place in the past few years, where more manufacturers are being brought to the frontline. But before that, it was mostly Aero. So Aero has kind of a heavy foot in the forum, because it's been talked about for a while. I don't think it has much to do with allegiances.
     

  2. Seems the only validity of this thread is that the OP who claims only neutrality (thus no fanboy whatsoever) concerning repro leather is determined to call upon all others to publically register their leather jacket company allegiance here..most especially if their magnitude of support is with Aero. Then the following reasons posted are sugar coated so others might respond. Why anyone would then post a defense explaining their preferences in a leather jacket company/ies is beyond me.
    HD
     
  3. Feraud

    Feraud Bartender

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    Those are my thoughts as well..
     
  4. Grayland

    Grayland One Too Many

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    I like any jacket that fits me well. I have a great fitting Aero, a great fitting Good Wear, and a great fitting Brooks. If I lived close to Aero or Johnson Leathers or Good Wear, I would probably align myself with them as it would be wonderful to actually try on a jacket at the factory and work out any needed modifications with the factory management.

    I do find it irritating and unprofessional to hear so many (what I consider) personal remarks directed at individual makers. BK brought some of it on themselves, but they were treated very poorly. The "superior" leather he touted, and was ridiculed for, now commands a $200 upcharge on Aero jackets through Thurston Bros. Whenever Lost Worlds is discussed, it quickly gets into personal attacks on Stu. Alexander Leather is disparaged regularly - just a few days ago, a snide remark about copying Aero's designs was made. Aren't all these repro makers "copying"? I haven't seen anyone develop an A-3, but I've seen many copies of A-2's. When I first got here, I read all about Aero and their (well deserved) reputation for customer service. I only read good things about Will Lauder and Amanda. Then the storse issue came about and I recall a joint Aero/Horween statement saying both companies were no longer associated with Will Lauder. Of course, Horween has no problem selling their hides to Alexander Leathers, so I guess Horween wasn't really wasn't very angry at Will Lauder, huh?

    I hope we can continue to discuss & critique leather jackets on the merits of the leather and the fit - regardless of brand. I hope we can put an end to the personal attacks made purely on the basis of brand.
     
  5. Big J

    Big J Call Me a Cab

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    I'm still wanting to know if it was Aero that complained about this thread. I think that the FL should be impartial regarding manufacturers, and if it isn't, I would like to know. I think that's only honest.

    'The Law'? Clearly, I mean the Constitution, The Bill of Rights, courts, judges, the police, or the law of whatever land that hosts the Lounge, and in regards to members commenting or viewing, the law of the country in which they reside. I can't really believe that you would confuse this with the house rules, which I've read. Speaking of which, I can only assume you removed comments of an abusive or threatening nature?

    By all means threaten indirectly to remove my membership. Absolutely, do as you wish.

    Still in two minds about the thread?
    Then I would suggest that you know it makes you uncomfortable, and you should stop prevaricating, and close the thread.
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2014
  6. Peacoat

    Peacoat Bartender Bartender

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    +1. Pc.
     
  7. schitzo

    schitzo Suspended

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    I'm not sure what or who has been 'moderated' but it wasn't me! This is my entry post.

    Personally, I currently have an aero (which some of you may have heard about) and an AL, with jackets from another three makers on the way. Then I'd quite like to try out a Thedi or maybe even a DD cafe racer. I am grateful to any of them who can supply me a good jacket and good service and if they do I'll likely post a positive review - which I'll try to keep objective - but that's as far as it goes for me.

    I have to say I agree with Grayland 100%. I don't enjoy the snide derogatory comments about other makers that so regularly pop up on these pages either. As he observed, the usual targets are BK and AL.

    For me, coming on here to talk leather jackets with guys like him, PL, SebLucas, Trapp, Nick123, Dav, Worf, Cooperson - even superfluous (I know I'm missing some out here, these are just a few off the top of my head) is the nice thing about tfl because I know that lot are just the same as me - we're all in the same boat. Just a bunch of guys with a shared interest in leather jackets who'll buy from anywhere. We don't care where you buy your next jacket from but if you want some advice we'll try to help you out if we can

    In my experience, I have found it is when a select few feel compelled to try and dictate the direction of conversations that are organic and free-flowing that this issue of 'allegiance' becomes a negative. I am not 100% clear on what a 'Fan Boy' is so let me talk about partisan posting. I think to post over positively about your favourite maker is no problem at all, go right ahead. But if that graduates to catty cheap shots at other makers then a line has been crossed and that kind of stuff really sours the overall experience; it basically lowers the tone.

    Given all the great press a company like aero receives on a daily basis on these pages - and nobody would deny that they are indeed the centrepiece for this section - I feel like if that is the situation and this is an open forum then dissent must be allowed too. Aero is run by humans, right? Humans are human, right? So if they make a mistake or a misjudgement once in a while then the adults should be able to talk about it freely without any other members attempting to police them. There are moderators in place for that type of thing and they should be left to it, no? To clarify, I am talking here about public conversations that are conducted post private conversation with the maker i.e. once the maker and buyer have concluded their behind the scenes discussion.

    If in the minds of some members no dissent shall be permitted on any grounds whatsoever ever, then think about what that actually means for a second, and how ridiculous that would be - it would be silly, no?. Now think about what the actual current landscape on these pages is and consider how far apart the two are. If the afore-mentioned is your position then how you can honestly expect anyone to take your words seriously is beyond me.

    Dissent is healthy and IMHO must be allowed because:
    1) Grown men and women are able to talk candidly and in accordance with house rules without libelling anybody and should be trusted to do so. If they prove themselves incapable, this place is not unmoderated and a moderator can step in.
    2) If a mistake that aero makes gets highlighted here so what? The other 99.5% of their exposure will still be positive so I'm thinking they can probably survive it. Compare the situation if you will to those big sellers on ebay with feedback into the 10s of thousands. No matter how good their record is they always have a few negative feedbacks don't they, yet we all see straight past those as we know it's par for the course in dealings between human beings of that volume. Same goes for aero.

    I just wish everyone on here would relax a bit more. If members could just pay a little bit more attention to what the spirit of this house is supposed to be, and afford a bit more respect to those with different views to their own, instead of trying to shout over them all the time we would all be able to enjoy a much happier, healthier online community.

    Some of us (who perhaps post regularly in other forums too) I think need to remember where they are when they're here. TFL is not some 2 bob forum for loud mouthed louts! This is a place for gentlemanly conduct; the respectful exchange of viewpoints. I truly hope we can get back to more of that in 2015

    Apologies for droning on a bit.

    Happy new year everyone! :D
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2014
  8. Plumbline

    Plumbline One Too Many

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    There are only 2 points in the OP

    1. Affiliations should be clear and open ( carrie@insurrection ... There is no ambiguity here, no unintended or intended deceipt .... ) IMHO others have not been as open or clear ( some examples were quoted but by no means the full and extensive list) ... I don't think one exists ( which is sort of the point)

    2. Bias should be declared ..... This enables posters to make a much more informed judgement regards commentary. If I have a particular bias and I post feedback relating to something which is clearly informed by that bias then that isn't either fair or helpful IMHO. So my opinion is it should be declared. It would appear that this is something that some would prefer to leave unsaid.


    I haven't called anyone out, who hasn't already declared their bias on numerous occasions ( except Superfluous .. For which I apologised earlier). In addition I have not broken ant house rules that I am aware of ( the inconsistency of their application we can debate but I recognise the great work the barkeeps do in preventing the decent into anarchy )

    Perhaps the term "fanboy" is ( as Worf said) too emotive ... Perhaps I should have used Partisans ( if one of the bartenders wishes to change the title then that would be fine ... )

    But the points remain .... Otherwise we have the crazy situation where ( to use a sporting analogy) a Glasgow Rangers Fan is posting telling me that my new Glasgow Celtic football kit is rubbish without me knowing that said individual has a partisan relationship with another team !

    Further, to be brutally honest, I have seen many examples if this .... Particularly in Outerwear .... Hence the point ! Please note Bias in neither a GOOD or a BAD thing .... We all have them ..... Like opinions, but my firm belief is that they are best tabled openly and clearly only then can real informed opinion be gathered. Just MHO.
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2014
  9. tropicalbob

    tropicalbob My Mail is Forwarded Here

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    Oy vey. Merry Christmas.
     
  10. Seb Lucas

    Seb Lucas I'll Lock Up

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    I still don't get how this is helpful, Plumb. You say yourself that bias is neither good nor bad - so why pursue this? Even if people out themselves as "partisans" what does this get us weeks from now? Do we discount their comments about brand X because they are fans of brand X? Do we have to search this thread in order to work out where people sit? I would have thought it was obvious what people think based on their posts. Or should we take this to its logical conclusion and have members pop a statement under their avatar saying something like, 'Aero or Alexander's Partisan', on the basis that we can then dismiss their enthusiasms? I can't see the use of this approach.
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2014
  11. Otter

    Otter One Too Many

  12. Plumbline

    Plumbline One Too Many

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    I'm not sure what it gets us Seb ... Other than clarity, objectivity and a little bit of understanding.

    In any case, I thought it a question worth asking, with no malice aforethought, I thought loyalty might be something people might want to declare and therefore that loyalty ( or bias could be accounted for )

    Perhaps if I'd titled the thread " Which leather jacket brand are you most loyal to !" It would have been less emotive ... But then it doesn't really ask the question or address the points I wanted to make!
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2014
  13. Rudie

    Rudie Call Me a Cab

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    Why did you ask for Aero specifically and not for jacket makers in general?
     
  14. cordwangler

    cordwangler One of the Regulars

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    And an eery silence about that $200 upcharge descended ;) Must be so obviously justifiable added value that it's not worth mentioning :D

    I guess there's an unwritten rule somewhere about what's regarded as bad taste when individuals promote relative quality of products. I was pretty sad when BK got shouted down and stomped on.

    Lost Worlds: really superb jackets.
     
  15. Sloan1874

    Sloan1874 I'll Lock Up

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    Isn't that down to the fact it's an option, one available in the States only, and not an across-the-board hike?[huh]
     
  16. cordwangler

    cordwangler One of the Regulars

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    I think his point, and mine, is that the added cost is for a product that had previously only been made available elsewhere - and the maker offering it was shouted down for touting its quality and/or costliness. It's not that it's not worth paying for. And not that there's anything wrong with adding cost where there's added value.
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2014
  17. Sloan1874

    Sloan1874 I'll Lock Up

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    No, the problem with BK is the manner is which they tout their jackets - a point made over and over again here. People like their jackets but not being barracked by Andy F via PMs or on the boards, telling them that they don't know what they're talking about, rubbishing other makers or leathers. I understand that Platon over on the VLJ got banned for similar behaviour. Presentation may not be everything, but it's very important. [huh]
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2014
  18. cordwangler

    cordwangler One of the Regulars

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    It's not a problem to me, maybe to others. I don't know about any of these PMs that get mentioned. I can't recall him rubbishing any makers, but if that happened maybe that's the result of a hotheaded type trying over-enthusiastically to justify their position in the face of grim clubbishness.

    Frankly, I don't care. I'm sure there are an awful lot of tiresome people in the garment industry! I like interesting garments.

    exactly!
     
  19. Seb Lucas

    Seb Lucas I'll Lock Up

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    The issue of vendors behaving poorly and making inflammatory comments is an entirely different problem. It's OK to tell others your product is good. It's entirely different when you slander or insult others.
     
  20. Sloan1874

    Sloan1874 I'll Lock Up

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    Oh well, that's all right then.
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2014
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