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Spear point collar shirts

Rabbit

Call Me a Cab
Messages
2,561
Location
Germany
Good call. They have quite a few dobby and end-on-end patterns. I'm sure this is a total newbie question, but are end-on-end and oxford suitable to wear with suits?

Yes, they are. Your notion of oxford cloth being strictly casual may come from certain fora and blogs where the "OCBD" (oxford cloth button down shirt) finds constant mention.

In pre-WWII aesthetics, texture and pattern - which are two very different things - used to be more important than in the 50s and 60s when solid white shirts became a relatively common choice for wear with lounge suits.
A 1950s look with white shirt:

MMH5N5e.jpg



Before the war, shirts for lounge suits usually had some surface interest. Oxford, both the semi-solid and patterned versions, and end-on-end are good choices - patterned plain weaves, too, of course. In period photos and especially in 1930s movies, those subtle patterns easily look like white or light-colored solids. This striped shirt would probably look white in a movie.

aaNnfdQ.jpg


Especially in the early talkies (1930-34), the b&w film material couldn't handle certain colors and contrasts too well. For instance, men sometimes looked as if they were wearing lipstick because the lips would be rendered too dark in relation to the skin. Added to that we often view copies that are of lower resolution. You may sometimes see a shirt pattern during a brief closeup, but most of the time they look solid, like these low-res stills:

XYsXmV4.jpg


u2CqWlY.jpg


On this last two images, you can see a striped pattern:

uAspOMz.jpg


MUuX8wk.jpg



Take a look at this selection of late 20s to mid 30s tailored clothes. They harmonize best with subtly patterned shirts, or at least semi-solids like oxford and end on end without pattern. The main difference between pre-WWII and 50s/60s patterns in tailored clothes is that the early stuff tends to have more intricate patterns and stresses texture more.
For example, the light suit on the right has a blue windowpane, but added to that it has a self-fabric windowpane and a faint stripe in another, not quite matching grey yarn.
The tan/rust overcoat with brown buttons has herringbone as the main pattern, but it also has sections of checkerboard - a pattern within a pattern.

You'll find the total opposite to this approach in 70s suit patterns which emphasize simpler patterns and largely disregard texture.

dFuymPd.jpg
 
Last edited:

APP Adrian

A-List Customer
Messages
364
Location
Toronto
Yes, they are. Your notion of oxford cloth being strictly casual may come from certain fora and blogs where the "OCBD" (oxford cloth button down shirt) finds constant mention.

In pre-WWII aesthetics, texture and pattern - which are two very different things - used to be more important than in the 50s and 60s when solid white shirts became a relatively common choice for wear with lounge suits.
A 1950s look with white shirt:

MMH5N5e.jpg



Before the war, shirts for lounge suits usually had some surface interest. Oxford, both the semi-solid and patterned versions, and end-on-end are good choices - patterned plain weaves, too, of course. In period photos and especially in 1930s movies, those subtle patterns easily look like white or light-colored solids. This striped shirt would probably look white in a movie.

aaNnfdQ.jpg


Especially in the early talkies (1930-34), the b&w film material couldn't handle certain colors and contrasts too well. For instance, men sometimes looked as if they were wearing lipstick because the lips would be rendered too dark in relation to the skin. Added to that we often view copies that are of lower resolution. You may sometimes see a shirt pattern during a brief closeup, but most of the time they look solid, like these low-res stills:

XYsXmV4.jpg


u2CqWlY.jpg


On this last two images, you can see a striped pattern:

uAspOMz.jpg


MUuX8wk.jpg



Take a look at this selection of late 20s to mid 30s tailored clothes. They harmonize best with subtly patterned shirts, or at least semi-solids like oxford and end on end without pattern. The main difference between pre-WWII and 50s/60s patterns in tailored clothes is that the early stuff tends to have more intricate patterns and stresses texture more.
For example, the light suit on the right has a blue windowpane, but added to that it has a self-fabric windowpane and a faint stripe in another, not quite matching grey yarn.
The tan/rust overcoat with brown buttons has herringbone as the main pattern, but it also has sections of checkerboard - a pattern within a pattern.

You'll find the total opposite to this approach in 70s suit patterns which emphasize simpler patterns and largely disregard texture.

dFuymPd.jpg

Thanks for sharing :).
 

Two Types

I'll Lock Up
Messages
5,456
Location
London, UK
I have quite a few Luxire shirts and I would say the Oxford cloth ones are better than the poplin ones. Some of the poplin is fairly light and the oxfords hold their shape neater. Nothing wrong with the poplin but the Oxford seem to me to wear better.
 

Rudie

Call Me a Cab
Messages
2,042
Location
Berlin
I had a shirt with a short European spearpoint made by Jantzen this spring and a lot went wrong. The neck size was two sizes too small and everything was fused instead of unfused. I sent the shirt back for alterations. Now the fit is near perfect but, again, they fused collar and cuffs. Still, I ordered another shirt from them, as the fit was better in the first attempt than any other maker I tried. Luxire couldn't even get me a decent fit after seven shirts. This time I asked for two detachable collars. Easier to replace when something goes wrong and they double the shirt life. What can I say. I micromanaged everything as best as I could and this time I received a really good shirt with a short spearpoint and a tab collar. The collars were copied from pictures (thanks to Fastuni and Papperskatt for giving me the measurements), the rest of the shirt was copied from a shirt of mine that is an exact copy of one of Baron Kurtz's early 30s British shirts.

IMG_1880.JPG

IMG_1881.jpg

IMG_1888.jpg
 

Rudie

Call Me a Cab
Messages
2,042
Location
Berlin
Yes, it is. A very nice Oxford. They have the same in pink. It is quite difficult and time consuming to browse all their fabrics. The presentation leaves a lot to be desired. But they do have rather nice fabrics if you take the time to search them out.
 

Metatron

One Too Many
Messages
1,513
Location
United Kingdom
Agreed, lovely fabric. I have been looking for a nice colourful but casual and textured shirt.
Are the collars and cuffs finally unfused this time?
I take it this shirt has the baggy 1930s fit? I never found an original in my size. Could you please post a fit picture?
 

volvomeister13

One of the Regulars
Messages
107
Location
United States
Yes, it is. A very nice Oxford. They have the same in pink. It is quite difficult and time consuming to browse all their fabrics. The presentation leaves a lot to be desired. But they do have rather nice fabrics if you take the time to search them out.

Great shirt! I think I like that fabric more than Luxire's offerings. Any chance I could get the collar dimensions from you?
 

Rudie

Call Me a Cab
Messages
2,042
Location
Berlin

fiftyforfifty

Sponsoring Affiliate
Messages
182
Location
NY
I had a shirt with a short European spearpoint made by Jantzen this spring and a lot went wrong. The neck size was two sizes too small and everything was fused instead of unfused. I sent the shirt back for alterations. Now the fit is near perfect but, again, they fused collar and cuffs. Still, I ordered another shirt from them, as the fit was better in the first attempt than any other maker I tried. Luxire couldn't even get me a decent fit after seven shirts. This time I asked for two detachable collars. Easier to replace when something goes wrong and they double the shirt life. What can I say. I micromanaged everything as best as I could and this time I received a really good shirt with a short spearpoint and a tab collar. The collars were copied from pictures (thanks to Fastuni and Papperskatt for giving me the measurements), the rest of the shirt was copied from a shirt of mine that is an exact copy of one of Baron Kurtz's early 30s British shirts.

IMG_1880.JPG

IMG_1881.jpg

IMG_1888.jpg

Really smart shirt with great collars
 

rtrann9ball

New in Town
Messages
5
Location
San Gabriel Valley
Hey gents! I'm a novice when it comes to buying and dressing vintage. I've finally ot the chance to pick up some nice high waist trousers, but I'm having trouble finding dress shirts and would like to use a collar bar with it. Custom and vintage are a little out of my price range for the moment, but I'd still like to be as accurate as possible.

Do you gents have any suggestions on OFF THE RACK brands that have a more vintage cut, point collar that'll do the job for the time being before I get some customs? Right now I have Croft and Barrow and Stafford shirts, but would like to try other brands that might have a better cut. Thank you in advance!!
 

Dreamofgilgamesh

A-List Customer
Hey gents! I'm a novice when it comes to buying and dressing vintage. I've finally ot the chance to pick up some nice high waist trousers, but I'm having trouble finding dress shirts and would like to use a collar bar with it. Custom and vintage are a little out of my price range for the moment, but I'd still like to be as accurate as possible.

Do you gents have any suggestions on OFF THE RACK brands that have a more vintage cut, point collar that'll do the job for the time being before I get some customs? Right now I have Croft and Barrow and Stafford shirts, but would like to try other brands that might have a better cut. Thank you in advance!!
I know you said 'off the rack' but you really should check out Natty Shirts, I have several of their shirts and the price isn't far off shop bought and you can design the sort of thing you described.
 

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