STETSON "Self Conforming" Hat

[John Galt]

I had seen the Self Conforming marking from time to time on vintage Stetson boaters, and had never before grabbed an image, but was intrigued. I thought I would document it here and start a discussion on the issue.

Most hat folk know, I presume, that Resistol, not Stetson, owns a patent on self-conforming type sweatbands, and presumably, the sole right to use the trademark. This, then, is an anomaly (nabbed from an eBay auction):

I will be looking into this on the assumption that there was a lawsuit or some other legal process involved, but please kick in other examples and data.

 

[mayserwegener]

Most of the stiff felt makers (see major hat making countries) offered some type of self conforming sweatband (under different trademarks).

 

[TheDane]

Stetson's patent is clearly indicated on the sweatband:

You can see Stetson's original patent papers here.

Resistol's application is not quite as old. There's a thread about it here.

A third self conforming sweatband system was Carter's buttoned-in sweatband. There's a thread about that here.

As mayserwegener writes, there has been a lot of different solutions

 

[The Wiser Hatter]

The inside of hats where replaced on a regular basis. There use to be this thing called a hat shop that you could walk into and have a hat cleaned and freshen up for the new season. The shops used whatever they had in stock to refurbish the hats. They had not heard of eBay at the time and didn't know or thought it would be silly for people to collect hats. Hats are to wear why would you worry about a sweatband.

 

[TheDane]

[...] why would you worry about a sweatband.

Because Ed ... you have never worn a hat in your life. Everytime you place a hat on your head, you are wearing a sweatband - not a hat. The felt is just for looks and to keep the sun out of your eyes. The sweatband is the only thing touching your body, so at least to me it would be very strange if the sweatband didn't have very high priority by all hatwearers. But only if comfort is of interest to the wearer, that is

 

[The Wiser Hatter]

Dude I was talking about people worrying about what model sweatband was in a vintage hat. I have seen hundreds of vintage hats will a kinds of different a brands of sweatbands and liners in hats. This was not a concern until someone decided that hats where collectible. In the past a hat was a hat. If you didn't have the funds to buy a new one the shop owner would just fix what was wrong with the old hat you had.

 

[TheDane]

Dude I was talking about people worrying about what model sweatband was in a vintage hat. I have seen hundreds of vintage hats will a kinds of different a brands of sweatbands and liners in hats. This was not a concern until someone decided that hats where collectible. In the past a hat was a hat. If you didn't have the funds to buy a new one the shop owner would just fix what was wrong with the old hat you had.

If I'm the one you're "dudeing", I must say that the hat wearer who raised me, taught me that the sweatband was of utmost importance when it comes to comfort. I guess that didn't change from he started to wear hats in the late 20s and up till I started to wear hats. As far as I'm concerned hat comfort is all about the sweatband.

Of course you may have other priorities, but don't you think you're a bit fast to determine what others before you felt about the issue? Why shouldn't people have prioritized comfort before somone began to collect hats? Why would the companies be interested in patenting something nobody really cared about? Something in your equation doesn't fit

 

[suitedcboy]

I completely agree with Ed.
I have changed sweatbands or had sweatbands changed on a few hats. I would use a good sweat from a damaged hat or a hat I didn't wear. The odd sourcing of sweatband would create a conundrum for anyone scrutinizing the hat as a collectible piece.
The Conversion Corral is loaded with hats that don't fit their sweats, liners, and trim. The chapeau-paleontologists in a few hundred years are surely going to be confused.

 

[mayserwegener]

The sweatband was a big factor with vintage Stiff Felts / Straws. The makers pushed more comfort (also less weight) especially as Soft Felts / Straws became more popular. By the way most old Stiff Felts were conformed like Top Hats (you see the self conforming sweats latter on).

 

[alanfgag]

I have absolutely no idea what this thread is about.

 

[alanfgag]

But I'm not going to sweat it.

 

[The Wiser Hatter]

Right Steve I have a Hat Life that has a whole article on the Self conforming sweatband. There where many sweatband manufacturers during the heyday of hats. Just as there where many different hat liner manufacturers. To Dane I was replying that there is nothing unusual about seeing this hat band "conforming and all in a Stetson straw or felt for that matter. You might and we have seen posted here on the lounge all kinds of different sweatbands in hats.

 

[TheDane]

I have absolutely no idea what this thread is about.

+1 [huh]

 

[mayserwegener]

I believe the OP is interested in who first patented / trademarked the term "Self Conforming". I just pointed out that other makers produced similar sweatbands and they first used in stiff felts and straws.

 

[TheDane]

I believe the OP is interested in who first patented / trademarked the term "Self Conforming". I just pointed out that other makers produced similar sweatbands and they first used in stiff felts and straws.

That's precisely how I understood the question and your points. I just think it got derailed in quite another direction

 

[Brad Bowers]

My two cents:

To address the issues at hand, as The Dane pointed out in the Stetson patent, the "Self Conforming" feature in the hat in the first post in the thread does NOT come from the sweatband. Just like the earlier Reverse-Lap Brim process patented by Crofut & Knapp, which is referenced in the Stetson patent, this method has to do with the manufacturing process of the sennit straw hat in the way the braids are sewn together. It had absolutely nothing to do with self-conforming features of sweatbands.

As for trademark issues, Resistol had to have been aware of the Stetson usage from five years earlier when they first used "Self-Conforming" on Resistols in 1934, though in a marked distinction from the Stetson straw hats, this was for a sweatband technology. Stetson never applied for the trademark for the term. However, in their trademark filing in 1943, Resistol acknowledges that they are making no claim to the words "Self-Conforming," only to the artwork supplied to the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office. This gives Resistol quite a bit of protection in legal terms, and Stetson never appears to have challenged the trademark, as there are no legal proceedings filed against Resistol at the time over the trademark. By 1947, though, things had changed. Resistol reapplied for the trademark, this time stating that the term "Self-Conforming" had become associated solely with Resistol sweatbands, and claimed not only the artwork but the words as well. Again, no trademark infringment case was filed, and Stetson might have even long ago discontinued the use of the term by 1947.

Sweatband technology is probably the most-patented of any hat manufacturing technologies or processes. Whether it's for conforming to the wearer's head, as in this case, the Carter example, or my personal favorite, the Bon-Ton and Bon-Ton Ivy sweatbands (best idea for stiff felts and straws alike!), to methods to prevent the wearer's sweat or hair products from leaching through to the ribbon or felt, there are multitudes of these patents out there.

Brad

 

[mayserwegener]

You also had the Euro makers with similar ideas about self conforming, ect.

 

[John Galt]

My two cents:

To address the issues at hand, as The Dane pointed out in the Stetson patent, the "Self Conforming" feature in the hat in the first post in the thread does NOT come from the sweatband. Just like the earlier Reverse-Lap Brim process patented by Crofut & Knapp, which is referenced in the Stetson patent, this method has to do with the manufacturing process of the sennit straw hat in the way the braids are sewn together. It had absolutely nothing to do with self-conforming features of sweatbands.

As for trademark issues, Resistol had to have been aware of the Stetson usage from five years earlier when they first used "Self-Conforming" on Resistols in 1934, though in a marked distinction from the Stetson straw hats, this was for a sweatband technology. Stetson never applied for the trademark for the term. However, in their trademark filing in 1943, Resistol acknowledges that they are making no claim to the words "Self-Conforming," only to the artwork supplied to the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office. This gives Resistol quite a bit of protection in legal terms, and Stetson never appears to have challenged the trademark, as there are no legal proceedings filed against Resistol at the time over the trademark. By 1947, though, things had changed. Resistol reapplied for the trademark, this time stating that the term "Self-Conforming" had become associated solely with Resistol sweatbands, and claimed not only the artwork but the words as well. Again, no trademark infringment case was filed, and Stetson might have even long ago discontinued the use of the term by 1947.

Sweatband technology is probably the most-patented of any hat manufacturing technolgies or processes. Whether it's for conforming to the wearer's head, as in this case, the Carter example, or my personal favorite, the Bon-Ton and Bon-Ton Ivy sweatbands (best idea for stiff felts and straws alike!), to methods to prevent the wearer's sweat or hair products from leaching through to the ribbon or felt, there multitudes of these patents out there.

Brad

Wow! I was just asking...

Seriously, I was just musing about the trademark and patent ramifications of these competitor's use of the term for hats. I was not commenting on swapping out sweatbands, comfort vs. utility, etc. (I do agree with The Dane though ;-).

I had planned on looking into this a bit, but Mr. Bowers, the man for all seasons with the four season hat has eloquently answered my question. Thanks.

 

[John Galt]

Stetson's patent is clearly indicated on the sweatband:

You can see Stetson's original patent papers here.

Resistol's application is not quite as old. There's a thread about it here.

A third self conforming sweatband system was Carter's buttoned-in sweatband. There's a thread about that here.

As mayserwegener writes, there has been a lot of different solutions

This is also quite helpful. "Thanks Mr. The Dane."

 

[mayserwegener]

Side Note: What is interesting is that the Euro makers rarely (I can't even think of an example) went to such extremes to patent or trademark such innovations (even within the country of origin).