Stripping Paint?

[sheeplady]

Has anyone here used Soy Gel?

We have to strip the floors in our new house (thankfully, they are not that bad as far as layers, and it appears to be mainly oil-based paint, thank god). We also need to strip the two stair cases, three doors, and about 100 feet of baseboard (if that).

I've tried steam stripping (ok, but slow, messy, and pits the wood horridly; but the only thing I've found good on latex that's put directly on the wood surface or over poly). I've also put more hours on my heat gun stripping than I have put miles on my car (or so it seems). So while this is not my first rodeo when it comes to stripping paint (I've done the doors, woodwork, and staircase in the current house), I am not going to do almost 3,000 square feet of floors with a heat gun.

I've read different things about the Soy Gel- some say to cover with plastic wrap to prevent it from drying out too quickly, others say to let it dry. Obviously, there is some experimenting here because it will depend on the paint and wood surface.

Any and all tips (particularly tips on using Soy Gel or particular to floors) are welcome.

If anyone has questions about steam stripping or using a heat gun, I am happy to share my ill-got knowledge.

 

[Big Man]

I'd be interested in knowing how this stuff works, too. I've read good reviews, but never talked with anyone who actually used the product.

Several years back, I used all kinds of things in stripping off 80 years of paint from a fireplace mantel in the dinning room. I don't recall the specific product name, but the jell-type stripping stuff worked fairly good. The heat gun and, like sheeplady said, hours and hours of work, did the best job. I have several doors and a window that I'd like to strip the paint from to bring the room back to the way it was around 1917 when my grandparents bought the house, but the work involved with doing the fireplace mantel kept me from taking on the doors and window.

 

[sheeplady]

Looks like we are trying it as my husband just bought a bucket of the stuff off Amazon. I will let you know what I find out, but it will likely be several weeks as I need to get my daughter in daycare part time so I can work on the stuff. As my husband said, "Hiring someone to strip paint is going to be more expensive than day care part time" so daycare part time it is. (Apparently stripping paint requires more expertise than watching children. I'll leave that alone.)

My mother used the chemical strippers on their floors, but hasn't used Soy Gel because of the expense. Being a cancer survivor, I have no plans to poison myself further than I already am, so the expensive stuff it is. That and some people seem to think it's a miracle. All I know is that a heat gun is not a miracle.

The paint is coming off the house by hook or by crook- the woodwork originally wasn't painted. I hate paint on anything but the walls, and even then, it is only begrudgingly that I paint my walls because it is better than wallpaper.

And I just realized that it is more like 9 doors that need to be stripped. Fun times. But the doors will be easier than the woodwork to do.

 

[1930artdeco]

Are the floors actually painted? Sorry just curious most of the time I either see carpet or stain. But if the paint is not lead based how about a floor sander with a fine grit sandpaper? That way the floors will be nice and smooth afterwards. I have used the orange scented paint stripper from HD and it works well.

Mike

 

[sheeplady]

Yes, they are painted. This appears to be common in country houses- the house I grew up in built in 1812 and this house built in 1853 had them). This house doesn't have "oak" floors, but rather they are hemlock, and there is no subfloor beneath this floor. In the main rooms downstairs the floors had partial carpets or lineoleum carpets the (so only the edges about two feet around each room are painted). However, the secondary rooms downstairs and all the rooms upstairs have painted floors.

Given how well the paint has held up (there can't be more than three coats there) and the wear it's taken, I'd assume it's lead. Lead paint works really well for floors because of it's durability.

 

[Big Man]

Any success with your paint stripping project?

 

[sheeplady]

So I tried some floor pieces (cut out for ducts all over the house), and it went really well.

I found you really need to let it set for 24 hours (with plastic over it) to be anything near effective. I scrapped it off with a dull putty knife, so color me impressed. It worked as well as the chemical scrapers I saw my mother use as a kid; but I could use it without burning my hands off. I plan on leaving it for several days, perhaps 2 or 3, just to make sure it gets a lot of paint off.

Some of the floors are more "smooth" than other of the floors. Apparently (and I never knew this until I looked it up) they didn't use to sand floors, but instead hired people to hand scrape floors. This was extremely labor intensive and expensive, so they only hand scrapped the floors in the main rooms of the house (parlors, entries, dining rooms) and left secondary rooms (kitchens, bedrooms, pantries, etc.) rougher. I noticed that there was some difference between the floors in terms of textures, and I believe that this could be explained by the level of scraping. (Unfortunately, I didn't label my samples, so I need to see what floor is where in the house.)

I am waiting for my shipment of Bahco scrapers to arrive before I start putting it on the floors. I highly recommend the Bahco scrappers. I am also going to try it on some of the woodwork (latex?) and see how that goes.



I will post before and after pictures once I get started. I think clean up will be a pain (it's a goopy mess) but it can't be worse than having to use paint thinner to clean everything.

 

[Big Man]

Sounds like you are making progress. Good luck with your project. I'll be looking forward to before and after pictures.

 

[sheeplady]

So I tried some SoyGel on the actual floor in what will be our dining room today.

This is the floor I started with. I believe there are three coats of paint on the floor:


This is after 2 days of the soy gel being applied. You can see the paint bubbling. I used thin sheet plastic to allow the stripper to stay liquid:


After scraping, but before sweeping and scrubbing:


This is the result at the end of stripping:


It took me about 4 hours. I am very pleased.

 

[Big Man]

So I tried some SoyGel on the actual floor in what will be our dining room today ...


This is the result at the end of stripping:


It took me about 4 hours. I am very pleased.

It looks like an awful lot of work, but the end result is very nice. Good luck on your project.

 

[vitanola]

Yes, they are painted. This appears to be common in country houses- the house I grew up in built in 1812 and this house built in 1853 had them). This house doesn't have "oak" floors, but rather they are hemlock, and there is no subfloor beneath this floor. In the main rooms downstairs the floors had partial carpets or lineoleum carpets the (so only the edges about two feet around each room are painted). However, the secondary rooms downstairs and all the rooms upstairs have painted floors.

Given how well the paint has held up (there can't be more than three coats there) and the wear it's taken, I'd assume it's lead. Lead paint works really well for floors because of it's durability.

Your kitchen floor was probably originally just "sanded", that is polished to s silvery sheen by being cleaned weekly with a brick, sand, Sal Soda and water. Later on, with the availability of commercial paint it might have been painted, with perhaps an oilcloth in the center of the floor. Your dining room may have had its floor covered entirely in oilcloth, or it might have been carpeted with a flat woven Ingrain or Venetian carpet. Ingrain was nearly ubiquitous in middle class homes before the 1880's. In the more modest homes cotton rag carpets stood in place of Ingrain. Druggets, canvas "rug protectors" were oft used in Mud Season. An occasional homeowner who could not afford Ingrain carpet would occasionally tack salvaged Ingrain around the perimeter of a room with a Drugget in the center, giving the impression of an expensively carpeted room covered for the season.

"Natural wood" floors with area rugs were not common until the end of the century. The became quite popular after the turn of the century, for they were considered to be more sanitary. Beginning in the '90's manufacturers of Linoleum, Oil Cloth and their derivatives such as Congoleum, began offering wood grained "rug surrounds" which became very popular indeed.

 

[sheeplady]

Your kitchen floor was probably originally just "sanded", that is polished to s silvery sheen by being cleaned weekly with a brick, sand, Sal Soda and water. Later on, with the availability of commercial paint it might have been painted, with perhaps an oilcloth in the center of the floor. Your dining room may have had its floor covered entirely in oilcloth, or it might have been carpeted with a flat woven Ingrain or Venetian carpet. Ingrain was nearly ubiquitous in middle class homes before the 1880's. In the more modest homes cotton rag carpets stood in place of Ingrain. Druggets, canvas "rug protectors" were oft used in Mud Season. An occasional homeowner who could not afford Ingrain carpet would occasionally tack salvaged Ingrain around the perimeter of a room with a Drugget in the center, giving the impression of an expensively carpeted room covered for the season.

"Natural wood" floors with area rugs were not common until the end of the century. The became quite popular after the turn of the century, for they were considered to be more sanitary. Beginning in the '90's manufacturers of Linoleum, Oil Cloth and their derivatives such as Congoleum, began offering wood grained "rug surrounds" which became very popular indeed.

Thank you for this Vitanola. Would this suggest that the rooms with the painting around the edging were painted at a later date? About what time period would they have painted the floors around the edge?

Now since I have started stripping, I believe that all the rooms were painted around the edge before they were painted over, as you can see the traces of the paint around the edges of the room.

We believe the house was built around 1853 (we know it was built between 1882 and 1885 by the deed and agricultural census).

Is there any way of telling what room was originally the kitchen by the floors? The floors and remenants of chimneys are all we have to go upon, and there are two locations that could have had the kitchen. I'm really befuddled by the number of rooms in the house, as it makes no sense why there are so many.

On the first floor their appears to be:
A parlor
A dining room
A kitchen
A large room at the back of the house
4 small rooms surrounding the large back room

While I am not completely sure that the current kitchen wasn't once the dining room and the current dining room wasn't a second parlor, that still leaves the four rooms at the back of the house. One could be wood storage; one could be the sick room; and one could be the pantry, but what was the fourth room?

 

[vitanola]

Well, painting around the edge of a room would probably have been done in the late 'Ninties or early 'Oughts. Depending upon the social positin of the family at that time they may have then installed oilcloths or "Linoleum Rugs" which echoed the appearance of real carpets, but we're both cheaper and easier to keep clean. One often at this period had both a kitchen, which would have been fitted with a range and storage cupboards, and a "Scullery", the back room which would have included a sink and laundry facilities. Later on, after the centruy's turn the kitchen would usually have been fitted with it's own sink, and the scullery may have been set up as a dedicated laundry and Summer Kitchen. Note that a Middle Class home would usually have had a Parlor (for formal occasions) and a Living room for the family's use. Your "kitchen" may have once been the dining room, the kitchen could well kave been the back room and the laundry could well have been either a shed in the kitchen yard or a space in the cellar. The four rooms surrounding the back room could well have served as Scullery, Buttery (Cold Pantry or Cold Room), Pantry (For corckery, china and glassware) and sick room.

 

[sheeplady]

Well, painting around the edge of a room would probably have been done in the late 'Ninties or early 'Oughts. Depending upon the social positin of the family at that time they may have then installed oilcloths or "Linoleum Rugs" which echoed the appearance of real carpets, but we're both cheaper and easier to keep clean. One often at this period had both a kitchen, which would have been fitted with a range and storage cupboards, and a "Scullery", the back room which would have included a sink and laundry facilities. Later on, after the centruy's turn the kitchen would usually have been fitted with it's own sink, and the scullery may have been set up as a dedicated laundry and Summer Kitchen. Note that a Middle Class home would usually have had a Parlor (for formal occasions) and a Living room for the family's use. Your "kitchen" may have once been the dining room, the kitchen could well kave been the back room and the laundry could well have been either a shed in the kitchen yard or a space in the cellar. The four rooms surrounding the back room could well have served as Scullery, Buttery (Cold Pantry or Cold Room), Pantry (For corckery, china and glassware) and sick room.

Ok, that makes sense. Thank you.

I am a little perplexed by something though, and maybe you have some answers. One of the large rooms in the house must have been the kitchen (the small rooms would not hold a cookstove). I believe the Back Room was once the kitchen. There's evidence of a chimney fire back there. I believe the current kitchen was either the dining room or MOST likely a living room.

However, there was a smaller but decent sized room off of the current kitchen/ old living room. I believe that this may have been the dining room.

But that room has the oddest thing: it has a trap door. It is located right in front of a window. We believe that there was once a door that opened almost directly over it from the oustide. It is original to the house and was nailed shut after the house was built but not too recently by the look of the nails.

What is really odd about this is that the house has a walk-in basement. It has a basic but functional original stair into the basement under the secondary stairs to the upstairs. This is not a house in which wood was sparse, the lady of the house was the daughter of a sawmill owner, the beams and joists are large and well-spaced. There's also space for a second set of stairs to be put into the basement from the living room (now kitchen) under the main stairs. What I am getting at is that if there was need to get into the basement, there was space for a second stairwell AND they had the wood for one. They certainly did not skimp other places; they were in their 40s when they built the house. Their stone is the largest in the local cemetery- I can't see these people going in and out of a trap door.


This room HAD to be the dining room. It sits directly off the parlor and the current kitchen (what I think was the original living room).

The house would not have burnt coal due to it's location.

Why would there be a trap door in the middle of a formal room? If it was a formal room, as you stated, there would have been carpeting/ flooring down. It would not have been readily accessible without moving the covering.

I have my ideas about WHY it would be there (it was designed to be hidden it seems) but I want to pick your brain.

 

[Big Man]

Could you make a sketch of the general floor plan? That might help in orienting things a bit. Could it have been the house has been added on to over the years?

 

[sheeplady]

This is the basic floor plan:


The house is all original based upon the basement footprint. Also, we know all the walls that are on here are decently original based upon the studs and beams.

So my big question is:
If the current "kitchen" was the second parlor
and the dining room was always a dining room
why is the trap door (dotted line) in the dining room floor?


We checked today and the trap door is definitely original to the house and was shut up using square nails. Since the dining room is level with the outside ground, I can't see it being used in building the house. Additionally, the basement is a walkout at the rear of the house (East Wall) and has an original stairwell into the basement through the laundry. There is a perfect place for a second stairway into the basement beneath the main stairwell if a second was needed.

So why a trap door?

 

[sheeplady]

To note:

On the first floor I believe:
The laundry was originally a pantry
The room to the East of the laundry was another pantry
The bathroom was a sick room.
The large unlabeled room was the kitchen
The last room was storage of some sort or perhaps a wet room.

I believe the current kitchen (labeled so on the document) was the family living room.

The dining room fits the shape of a dining room. This was not a large family- they had two to three children (not clear; need to find the wills) but they were adults/ near adults at the time this house was built. I know in 1855 it was the husband, wife, grown son, one of the wife's cousins, an unknown teenaged female, and an unknown male listed as living in the household. So the dining room had to be a decent size to at least accommodate the four family members and company. It feels like the proportions are right for the dining room based upon other Italianates I've been in.

 

[Big Man]

That's an interesting floor plan. Usually, but certainly not always, the kitchen is adjacent to the dining room. Also, the kitchen would probabally not been accessable directly from the main entrance to the house and also not from the formal living room. I've seen a lot of old houses, and the floor plans are often times very confusing as to what the original intent was. I'm sure they made sense to the family who first had the house built, but after that, well it's anyone's guess sometimes.

As to the trap door. I don't have any idea why it would be in that location (or at all, for that matter). Does it actually have hinges, or could it be possible it was a cut open for some kind of repair at one time?

 

[sheeplady]

That's an interesting floor plan. Usually, but certainly not always, the kitchen is adjacent to the dining room. Also, the kitchen would probabally not been accessable directly from the main entrance to the house and also not from the formal living room. I've seen a lot of old houses, and the floor plans are often times very confusing as to what the original intent was. I'm sure they made sense to the family who first had the house built, but after that, well it's anyone's guess sometimes.

As to the trap door. I don't have any idea why it would be in that location (or at all, for that matter). Does it actually have hinges, or could it be possible it was a cut open for some kind of repair at one time?

It had hinges, but they were filled in with small pieces of wood when it was nailed shut. It is rather... odd. I don't know why you'd remove the hinges and cut tiny pieces of wood to fill that space in.

I looked really carefully at the floors. I believe the large back room was originally the kitchen. The floors in the parlor, dining room, and the current kitchen are much much rougher than this back room. This would stand to reason to be the kitchen if the floor was scrubbed as Vitanola suggested.

Back to the trap door.... it is just weird. Square nails were apparently stopped being used in the 1880s at the latest, and it was closed up by square nails. So it was closed relatively soon after being built. And the effort of removing the hinges and cutting those pieces of wood and nailing it shut seems a little extreme. The door was designed to seemingly blend in with the floor, both while operational and when not.

 

[Big Man]

It had hinges, but they were filled in with small pieces of wood when it was nailed shut. It is rather... odd. I don't know why you'd remove the hinges and cut tiny pieces of wood to fill that space in.

I looked really carefully at the floors. I believe the large back room was originally the kitchen. The floors in the parlor, dining room, and the current kitchen are much much rougher than this back room. This would stand to reason to be the kitchen if the floor was scrubbed as Vitanola suggested.

Back to the trap door.... it is just weird. Square nails were apparently stopped being used in the 1880s at the latest, and it was closed up by square nails. So it was closed relatively soon after being built. And the effort of removing the hinges and cutting those pieces of wood and nailing it shut seems a little extreme. The door was designed to seemingly blend in with the floor, both while operational and when not.

I love a good mystery. I also hate a good mystery that I can't figure out.

In the "front room" of my house (built 1907), there are two sets of holes in the floor along the back wall of the room. The holes are about 1/4 inch in diameter and each about an inch or so apart, with the second set about five feet from the first. I spent a lot of time in this house growing up (used to spend every summer here with my grandmother and aunt), but never noticed them until about two years ago. Now, there is absolutely no one left to ask what they were for.

I guess some mysteries are never to be answered.