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The BORSALINO BROTHERHOOD

Miamibruno

One Too Many
Messages
1,016
Location
Milton, MA
Certo, Daniele.

Brim = 2 inches with a Cavanagh edge
Crown = 3 7/8th inches at the pinch
Ribbon = 1 7/8th inch grosgrain ribbon
Size = 7 ½ (6 ½ Punti)
Length of opening = 8 ¼
Width of opening = 6 ¾
 

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Messages
16,248
Location
Nederland
Gents,

I know we've discussed Qualita designations quite a bit. The designation "Qualita Aquila" was mentioned but to no conclusion as to felt content etc. I have a fabulous Borsalino that is of that designation and includes 3 stars. Just curious if anyone has seen this before or understands the connotation of the designation and the starts. Thanks in advance for whatever you have.

Adrian

Adrian View attachment 282669
That is a second one as far as I know, Adrian. Usually, well as far as that goes for such a rare designation, the Aquila hats are the same as their nutria hats, meaning it seems to refer to the felt. Like these:
aquil1.jpg
aquil2.jpg
aquil3.jpg
aquila1.jpg
aquila2.jpg
aquila3.jpg
aquila4.jpg


The only other one that had the "qualitá aquila" was this one:
aquilag1.jpg
aquilag2.jpg


It seems that the designation has been around for a while. The examples where it referred to the felt were earlier than the ones where it was used as aquality designation. Judging by the label on yours it dates from the early to mid sixties. The covering of the liner tip points in that direction as well. If I'm seeing it correctly the hat was sold through Carlo Lambardi of Rome, which isn't saying much, because they sold a lot of hats aimed for the American market (they just did it in Rome). It is still puzzling to me why Borsalino didn't use the felt quality as a selling point or marketing tool more often.
A very cool hat and in a rare colour as well.
 

Just Daniel

One Too Many
Messages
1,396
Whew. I saw some earlier information that associated the Aquila with the felt. We know Nutria means Nutria (brilliant, I know), but any idea on Aquila for Eagle? Is it another question we just don’t know yet?

One more question I am sure has been asked 1000 times but even after searching I can’t track down a clear answer for: dating your first hat above, the blue size tag, unsewn sweatband, and the liner label, do they help us narrow down a decade?

Thanks!
Daniel


That is a second one as far as I know, Adrian. Usually, well as far as that goes for such a rare designation, the Aquila hats are the same as their nutria hats, meaning it seems to refer to the felt. Like these:
View attachment 282701 View attachment 282702 View attachment 282694 View attachment 282695 View attachment 282696 View attachment 282697 View attachment 282698

The only other one that had the "qualitá aquila" was this one:
View attachment 282703 View attachment 282704

It seems that the designation has been around for a while. The examples where it referred to the felt were earlier than the ones where it was used as aquality designation. Judging by the label on yours it dates from the early to mid sixties. The covering of the liner tip points in that direction as well. If I'm seeing it correctly the hat was sold through Carlo Lambardi of Rome, which isn't saying much, because they sold a lot of hats aimed for the American market (they just did it in Rome). It is still puzzling to me why Borsalino didn't use the felt quality as a selling point or marketing tool more often.
A very cool hat and in a rare colour as well.
 
Messages
16,248
Location
Nederland
Whew. I saw some earlier information that associated the Aquila with the felt. We know Nutria means Nutria (brilliant, I know), but any idea on Aquila for Eagle? Is it another question we just don’t know yet?

One more question I am sure has been asked 1000 times but even after searching I can’t track down a clear answer for: dating your first hat above, the blue size tag, unsewn sweatband, and the liner label, do they help us narrow down a decade?

Thanks!
Daniel
Your guess is as good as mine I'm afraid. There aren't a lot of examples to put a complete picture together. In part the same goes for the other designations for felts that are known: nutria, castoro, martora, lontra, visone, chinchilla; we don't know if and to which degree these critters were actually used. Nutria and castoro (beaver) seem likely, but the others? Possibly, maybe? Who knows.
The dating is based on all the examples of hats that were dated in one way or another (or based on other evidence). It's the closest we've gotten so far. Here's the total list of types of labels:
borsalino cell type: 1920 -1936
borsalino sideways: 1936 - 1953
borsalino cerrated edge sheet: 1954 - 1960
borsalino cerrated edge roll (straight edge left and right): 1961 - 1968
borsalino rounded edge with colour name: 1968 - 1975
dated labels (recognizable by the use of the hyphen between the first two and the rest of the digits): 1976 - 1983
borsalino elongated label no colour name: 1983 - 2020
 

Daniele Tanto

My Mail is Forwarded Here
Messages
3,916
Location
Verona - Italia
Certo, Daniele.

Brim = 2 inches with a Cavanagh edge
Crown = 3 7/8th inches at the pinch
Ribbon = 1 7/8th inch grosgrain ribbon
Size = 7 ½ (6 ½ Punti)
Length of opening = 8 ¼
Width of opening = 6 ¾
Adrian, despite the rare color and the words "Qualità Aquila", the Borsalino in question is one of the marketing hits of the Casa di Alessandria. Clearly the quality of the felt designated by the mention Qualità Aquila is used here as a "plus" to differentiate the product and the three stars as well. The latter is to "redo" the designations of the felt used in the States.
As Stefan rightly explained, Lambardi was one of the largest American tourist hat sellers in the Eternal City.
I believe that the desire of Borsalino after the Second World War to use the quality of felt as marketing was entirely nominal, even if from the Italian sources consulted in Alessandria, hair of various kinds continued to be mixed, but in absolute secrecy and according to the supplies received. Remember that Italy produced insufficient leather to satisfy the production of the hatbox industries.
For its dating it is a hat from the late sixties and early seventies, even if I don't like to be clairvoyant about the age of the hats, however it is a combination of color, a rare designation of felt, so Adrian you are a lucky man.
Of the same "Qualità Aquila" hats posted by Stefan, only the first one, sold in Brasil was made before the Second War
 

Miamibruno

One Too Many
Messages
1,016
Location
Milton, MA
That is a second one as far as I know, Adrian. Usually, well as far as that goes for such a rare designation, the Aquila hats are the same as their nutria hats, meaning it seems to refer to the felt. Like these:
View attachment 282701 View attachment 282702 View attachment 282694 View attachment 282695 View attachment 282696 View attachment 282697 View attachment 282698

The only other one that had the "qualitá aquila" was this one:
View attachment 282703 View attachment 282704

It seems that the designation has been around for a while. The examples where it referred to the felt were earlier than the ones where it was used as aquality designation. Judging by the label on yours it dates from the early to mid sixties. The covering of the liner tip points in that direction as well. If I'm seeing it correctly the hat was sold through Carlo Lambardi of Rome, which isn't saying much, because they sold a lot of hats aimed for the American market (they just did it in Rome). It is still puzzling to me why Borsalino didn't use the felt quality as a selling point or marketing tool more often.
A very cool hat and in a rare colour as well.


Stefan,

I totally agree that my hat is from the 60s and that it is a quality rather than a felt designation. I think the 3 stars indicate beaver, though I wouldn't swear to it. The felt, as I said, feels beaver like. Reminds me of the Resistor 3Xs.
 

carouselvic

I'll Lock Up
Messages
4,676
Location
Kansas
[QUOTE="Miamibruno, I think the 3 stars indicate beaver, though I wouldn't swear to it.[/QUOTE]

I think the four X's in mine indicate frog hair and manatee fur, though I wouldn't swear to it. When I put it up for sale on ebay this will be my story and I'm sticking to it. Selling blue sky is no sin, is it?

 
Messages
16,248
Location
Nederland
Borsalino in the colour sandalo. Size 60 (American 7 1/2) with the bound brim at 5,5cm and the crown at 11cm at the center dent. So considered a stingy in these parts but a quality hat by any standard. Nothing spectacular, but for posterity, completeness and because of the unusual colour it gets its place. Early to mid seventies for this one.

borsalino-sandalo_01-jpg.284368
borsalino-sandalo_02-jpg.284369
borsalino-sandalo_03-jpg.284370
borsalino-sandalo_04-jpg.284371
borsalino-sandalo_06-jpg.284372
borsalino-sandalo_08-jpg.284373
borsalino-sandalo_11-jpg.284374
borsalino-sandalo_12-jpg.284375
borsalino-sandalo_13-jpg.284376
 
Messages
16,701
Location
Maryland
Borsalino in the colour sandalo. Size 60 (American 7 1/2) with the bound brim at 5,5cm and the crown at 11cm at the center dent. So considered a stingy in these parts but a quality hat by any standard. Nothing spectacular, but for posterity, completeness and because of the unusual colour it gets its place. Early to mid seventies for this one.

borsalino-sandalo_01-jpg.284368
borsalino-sandalo_02-jpg.284369
borsalino-sandalo_03-jpg.284370
borsalino-sandalo_04-jpg.284371
borsalino-sandalo_06-jpg.284372
borsalino-sandalo_08-jpg.284373
borsalino-sandalo_11-jpg.284374
borsalino-sandalo_12-jpg.284375
borsalino-sandalo_13-jpg.284376
Stefan, Another super find! Also more great color combinations.
 

Hettie Heijnis

New in Town
Messages
7
Location
Nederland
[QUOTE = "steur, post: 2546840, member: 36136"] Uit het algemene overzicht van kleuren en modellen weten we al dat er van beide enorm veel zijn. Dat geldt zowel voor de situatie van de jaren twintig tot eind jaren vijftig, toen de modellen werden genoemd in naar mijn mening de fonetische notatie van het Alessandrische dialect, als de latere productie toen de modellen alleen nummers hadden die verband hielden met catalogi.

We hebben niet een brede steekproef van alle modellen en er zijn genoeg voorbeelden van modellen waarvan er maar één exemplaar bekend is. Het is zeker dat wat ik code 1 noem (in de linkerbovenhoek van het label) gerelateerd is aan de modelnaam toen die in de rechter benedenhoek van het label werd genoteerd. Ik kom zo meteen bij de voorbeelden.

Hier is een bijgewerkt overzicht van kleuren en modellen :

[ATTACH = volledig] 168242 [/ ATTACH]


[ATTACH = vol] 168243 [/ ATTACH]

De " onzichtbare kleuren " is gerelateerd aan de fantastische foto van [USER = 4246] @mayserwegener [/ USER] die hij maakte toen hij met Daniele de fabriek bezocht van de kleuren van de windcords, met de kleurnamen op de dozen. Om compleet te zijn:

[ATTACH = volledig] 168244 [/ ATTACH]

De lijst bevat niet de vilten, omdat er enige onzekerheid bestaat over deze verwijzen naar het vilt zelf of naar de afwerking van de hoed. Maar voor completisten: ik heb deze vilts gevonden :
nutria
Castoro
Martora
aquila
lontra
visone
chinchilla
We weten uit de gevonden folders dat er een verband bestaat tussen sommige aanduidingen en viltinhoud, maar dit kennen we alleen van deze aanduidingen:
trionfo (= konijnenvilt)
extra superior (=rabbit felt)
castoro (=beaver felt)


Finishes are named specifically as well on a good number of hats. These names I've found so far:
serikon
diamante
angora
pesca
imperiale
silchi
mimosa
krystal
peluche
castoro

Quality designations are availbale in abundance too:
qualitá speciale
qualitá extra extra superiore
qualitá extra superiore
qualitá superiore
qualitá finissima
qualitá extra finissima
qualitá suprema
qualitá massima
qualitá augusta (on sweatband)
qualitá superlativa
qualitá victoria

The preliminary findings of the research of the labels in the next post.[/QUOTE]
 

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