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The Bowler or Derby Hat

Messages
16,534
Location
Maryland
Last edited:
Messages
16,534
Location
Maryland
After @steur commented on the new hats thread about not having seen a vintage bowler in blue, I thought it would be worth posting this one. It’s not my hat. I’ve had it on my watch list on a local market for some time out of curiosity, but it’s much too small for me.
Etsuko says that judging from the writing, it’s likely just pre-war, an assessment that Stefan agreed with.
It’s still available, and pretty cheap. If anyone is interested, send me a PM. View attachment 432622 View attachment 432623 View attachment 432624 View attachment 432625 View attachment 432626
Fantastic! I have come across old JHS Soft and Stiff Felt Hats made for the Japanese market but they were also small sizes.
 

Kuro

Practically Family
Messages
710
I got this Dobbs Bowler for a very reasonable price, but it doesn't fit me, incorrect size was advertised. Size is actually a 7 1/4. Any information on this hat? I was going to return it to the seller but if anyone is interested would be willing to pass it on to a member here. It is a little rougher than I thought it was as well, the bound edge ribbon shows wear and there is a small hole in the brim. View attachment 430763 View attachment 430764 View attachment 430765 View attachment 430766 View attachment 430767
That sweatband is epic.
 

belfastboy

I'll Lock Up
Messages
8,720
Location
vancouver, canada
Thank you! I like to look at the liners too. :)
I was sent a bowler by a customer to fix up. Turns out not really fixable as the hat appears to be a thin felt stretch/glued to a light plastic shell. Ribbon is glued on, brim binding as well, Even the leather sweat is glued to the felt as no thread can penetrate the plastic shell. It is branded a Stetson. Have you ever come across this before?
 
Messages
16,534
Location
Maryland
I was sent a bowler by a customer to fix up. Turns out not really fixable as the hat appears to be a thin felt stretch/glued to a light plastic shell. Ribbon is glued on, brim binding as well, Even the leather sweat is glued to the felt as no thread can penetrate the plastic shell. It is branded a Stetson. Have you ever come across this before?
Could be an equestrian model. I haven't seen anything like that from a German or Austrian company. What is the time period?
 

belfastboy

I'll Lock Up
Messages
8,720
Location
vancouver, canada
Could be an equestrian model. I haven't seen anything like that from a German or Austrian company. What is the time period?
Not sure. No liner just the Stetson logo stencil inside the crown. The plastic shell is very thin....no protection provided by it at all. Almost a costume hat except it is nicely finished and it does have the Stetson name badge. Maybe a keeper just because of its weirdness!!!
 
Messages
16,534
Location
Maryland
Not sure. No liner just the Stetson logo stencil inside the crown. The plastic shell is very thin....no protection provided by it at all. Almost a costume hat except it is nicely finished and it does have the Stetson name badge. Maybe a keeper just because of its weirdness!!!
If possible please post some photos. It would be interesting to see it.

I do have a P. & C. Habig Wien Stiff Felt with a felt insert "Auto Cape" that was used to prevent dents and cracks. The problem is it added extra weight. You can see the Stiff Felt and patent information at the links below.

P. & C. Habig Wien - Berlin "Special Qualität" with "Auto Cape"


"Auto Cape" Patent Info

 

moehawk

I'll Lock Up
Messages
5,423
Location
Northern California
Hey all!
I stopped in a local vintage store yesterday to chat with the owner. She was the one who sold me the 3 hat Dobbs box with the top hat inside last year, so I stop in periodically to see if she has anything cool to check out. This time she pulled out this derby, which had a severe bend upward on the front left quarter of the hat. I offered to try to fix it, so she sent it home with me. I didn't get pics of the as-found state. Here it is after some alcohol to soften the shellac, set in a flange with a beanbag inside to gently unbend it with the weight, and a good steaming and hand adjustment.

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Still a little wonky, but way better than before. In the pics the outside is still a little dewy from steam. The owner was quite happy!
A little research shows Paul Carroll opened his first hat shop shortly after the 1906 earthquake and fire, after having worked in the men's clothing industry as a young man. He soon had 5 hat stores around the Bay Area.
I really like the decorative ribbon work on the sweat. That and the flying tips on the bow really set it apart from other derbies for me. Nicely ventilated and fairly light at 133g. Guessing late teens maybe early twenties. Wish t fit or I'd have made an offer.
 

Steve1857

I'll Lock Up
Messages
7,209
Location
Denmark
Hey all!
I stopped in a local vintage store yesterday to chat with the owner. She was the one who sold me the 3 hat Dobbs box with the top hat inside last year, so I stop in periodically to see if she has anything cool to check out. This time she pulled out this derby, which had a severe bend upward on the front left quarter of the hat. I offered to try to fix it, so she sent it home with me. I didn't get pics of the as-found state. Here it is after some alcohol to soften the shellac, set in a flange with a beanbag inside to gently unbend it with the weight, and a good steaming and hand adjustment.

View attachment 433788 View attachment 433789 View attachment 433790 View attachment 433791 View attachment 433792 View attachment 433793 View attachment 433794 View attachment 433795 View attachment 433796 View attachment 433797


Still a little wonky, but way better than before. In the pics the outside is still a little dewy from steam. The owner was quite happy!
A little research shows Paul Carroll opened his first hat shop shortly after the 1906 earthquake and fire, after having worked in the men's clothing industry as a young man. He soon had 5 hat stores around the Bay Area.
I really like the decorative ribbon work on the sweat. That and the flying tips on the bow really set it apart from other derbies for me. Nicely ventilated and fairly light at 133g. Guessing late teens maybe early twenties. Wish t fit or I'd have made an offer.
That is a very nice looking Bowler inside and out, John. Well worth giving it some tlc.
 
Messages
16,534
Location
Maryland
P. & C. Habig Wien "Special Qualität", 58 cm, 147 grams, possibly early to mid 1920s. This is an older one based on the Paper Label type and the use of city name Cassel vs. Kassel. In 1926 the city name was officially changed to Kassel.** The Black Felt has a superb finish / hand. The Form is impressive with a taller Crown and less side tapper. The component quality and workmanship are excellent which is always the case with P. & C. Habig Wien. The overall condition is very good especially for its age.

52164865447_a4599229c5_h.jpg


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The Worker's "Arb." surname appears to be "Makovsky". I will have to see if I can find something about him.

52163019727_c4581fcf3a_h.jpg


** https://www.kassel.de/buerger/stadtgeschichte/lokales/von-cassel-zu-kassel.php
 

Rmccamey

I'll Lock Up
Messages
4,125
Location
Central Texas
Yet another one I'd
P. & C. Habig Wien "Special Qualität", 58 cm, 147 grams, possibly early to mid 1920s. This is an older one based on the Paper Label type and the use of city name Cassel vs. Kassel. In 1926 the city name was officially changed to Kassel.** The Black Felt has a superb finish / hand. The Form is impressive with a taller Crown and less side tapper. The component quality and workmanship are excellent which is always the case with P. & C. Habig Wien. The overall condition is very good especially for its age.

52164865447_a4599229c5_h.jpg


52166123679_a936276e67_h.jpg


52165901623_cf6f35828c_h.jpg


52166138014_0fe8ce739e_h.jpg


52165914198_a4830572f1_h.jpg


52164876917_239aa522bb_h.jpg


The Worker's "Arb." surname appears to be "Makovsky". I will have to see if I can find something about him.

52163019727_c4581fcf3a_h.jpg


** https://www.kassel.de/buerger/stadtgeschichte/lokales/von-cassel-zu-kassel.php

be happy to keep for you :)
 

TheDavel

New in Town
Messages
11
Just got this Stetson derby in the mail from ebay. The person who had sent it jammed it into a box that was too small for it, but I was able to work the dents out a bit. Will likely try again to get them a bit more 'smoothed out'. But, it is in great condition otherwise. A good brushing helped considerably. I didn't dig too hard behind the sweatband, as I am outright paranoid of something happening to it (even though it is quite flexible...)...

After looking at all of the posts in this thread (at very similar hats posted), I think this might be pre-20's. I also contacted the Tonawanda historical society about the company listed on the band and in on the label, and they said that the shop was open from 1906 until about 1926. So, pretty good chance of the pre-20's thing, I'd think.

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It is also quite different in feel to the hat in my next post!
 
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TheDavel

New in Town
Messages
11
This one I got while in Lowell, MA at an antique store a few years ago. From what I have seen, based on the Stetson logo, it could be late 50s or so? It is MUCH softer than the one above. It also looks a good bit different than the one above (brim is smaller, mostly), but still is pretty awesome unto itself.

The price tag was the only thing I found under the sweatband. No duplication/etc label.

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Rmccamey

I'll Lock Up
Messages
4,125
Location
Central Texas
Just got this Stetson derby in the mail from ebay. The person who had sent it jammed it into a box that was too small for it, but I was able to work the dents out a bit. Will likely try again to get them a bit more 'smoothed out'. But, it is in great condition otherwise. A good brushing helped considerably. I didn't dig too hard behind the sweatband, as I am outright paranoid of something happening to it (even though it is quite flexible...)...

After looking at all of the posts in this thread (at very similar hats posted), I think this might be pre-20's. I also contacted the Tonawanda historical society about the company listed on the band and in on the label, and they said that the shop was open from 1906 until about 1926. So, pretty good chance of the pre-20's thing, I'd think.

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It is also quite different in feel to the hat in my next post!
Nice catch.
 

Just Daniel

One Too Many
Messages
1,377
Great catch!

Yes, I'm with you and Bob above. From the little we know it is almost certainly pre-1915.

It seems mandatory to say it could be some other date, or that there is some uncertainty in overlapping indicators, or other disclaimers just to appease some really, really picky folks. But hey, like you I just always say "I am pretty sure this is pre-1915," or something similar.

And a great little hat.




Just got this Stetson derby in the mail from ebay. The person who had sent it jammed it into a box that was too small for it, but I was able to work the dents out a bit. Will likely try again to get them a bit more 'smoothed out'. But, it is in great condition otherwise. A good brushing helped considerably. I didn't dig too hard behind the sweatband, as I am outright paranoid of something happening to it (even though it is quite flexible...)...

After looking at all of the posts in this thread (at very similar hats posted), I think this might be pre-20's. I also contacted the Tonawanda historical society about the company listed on the band and in on the label, and they said that the shop was open from 1906 until about 1926. So, pretty good chance of the pre-20's thing, I'd think.

View attachment 449417
View attachment 449418
View attachment 449419
View attachment 449420
View attachment 449421
View attachment 449434
View attachment 449422
View attachment 449423
View attachment 449424
View attachment 449425


It is also quite different in feel to the hat in my next post!
 

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