Vintage shrinkage

[jec]

Okay - say you are eyeballing a beautiful vintage hat on EBay...

IS there anyway, to know how much shrinkage may have occurred in the hat - short of putting it on your noggin - or entrusting a tricky measuring job to the seller ? (who may or may not know how to get an accurate circumference inside the sweatband)

And if an old hat that you've bought on EBay does arrive a size or two smaller than the tag indicates, what is the best way to restore it to the original size? Hat jack? A professional reblock?

Finally, what is the typical amout of shrinkage to expect? One full size? Two? Does it vary by brand? Felt composition?

I'm confused - and have been disappointed too many times to keep shooting in the dark.

Thanks for your help...

 

[duggap]

jecoe, I can't answer all your questions but I can tell you what I have read here on the lounge. Felt will continue to shrink a little as it ages. It will continue for many years until the felt "dies". When it has reached that point it stablizes. Now let some of the ole vets come forth and clean up my mess.lol

 

[nickn5]

Seems like quite a hit and miss thing - I bought a 50s Open Road 7 1/8 which fitted about the same as a 50s 7 1/4 Knox. The only thing I won't do is go more than 1 size either way from my usual, however old the hat. And it generally seems consistent that all 50s-60s hats have shrunk by no more than 1 size, from my experiences.

I use this to stretch mine as it does the whole crown not just the sweatband:

N.

 

[J.T.Marcus]

The crazy thing is, some shrink from their original size, and some don't. If the seller will give the exact sweatband circumference (i.e. 22 1/4", which is my size), then you can be fairly certain. If not, a picture of the inside of the crown will help. A puckered sweatband means the hat has shrunk from original size (or that there are "shims" under the sweatband, to make it fit a smaller head). If the sweatband lies perfectly flat, and the size tag is still in the hat, you can be reasonably sure. (Unless the hat was sold in England. In that case, you want one size smaller than your usual.)

 

[jec]

The crazy thing is, some shrink from their original size, and some don't. If the seller will give the exact sweatband circumference (i.e. 22 1/4", which is my size), then you can be fairly certain. If not, a picture of the inside of the crown will help. A puckered sweatband means the hat has shrunk from original size (or that there are "shims" under the sweatband, to make it fit a smaller head). If the sweatband lies perfectly flat, and the size tag is still in the hat, you can be reasonably sure. (Unless the hat was sold in England. In that case, you want one size smaller than your usual.)

Thanks, all, for the tips.

J.T. -- Your suggestion about looking at the condition of the sweatband is particularly helpful - In fact, I just double-checked the photos of the interior of the last hat I purchased on EBay. I had remembered the sweatband being pristine and laying flat, but sure enough, it had puckered in spots. And that hat arrived considerably smaller than its nominal size.

 

[HarpPlayerGene]

I also suspect that some of the leather sweatbands either tighten up a bit or stiffen up some over time, adding to the problem.

I have sometimes guided sellers via email how to cut a strip from a file folder and use that to place inside the hat and mark a circumference, then remove that and compare it to a regular tape measure for a more accurate measurement. Some of them don't read/get it, some thank me for teaching them a useful trick.

Another thing is, I am technically between sizes and have a Long Oval head shape. Sometimes people with these sorts of peculiarities have harder times finding good fits in vintage hats.

G'luck!

 

[zetwal]

This is the sort of question that first brought me to the lounge. I had several old Borsalinos that I wore for many years and wanted to try something new. I thought that I knew my hat size and that that was the end of the story. I was really very mistaken.

In my case, having never previously bought a hat online, I happened to have several vintage hats that were actually true to size. I know now that this is indeed the case because I subsequently measured my head and tried on new hats at the habberdashery and elsewhere.

New hats can vary a lot in their fit and used hats are all over the map. Even in the correct size they can be too small, too large, too wide, or too narrow. The shape of the oval of any given hat is very important but very difficult to estimate without actually seeing the hat.

After having personally examined mountains of old hats in all sorts of places I have concluded that it's largely a **** shoot. Even the brand doesn't matter. No matter what another's experience may be, I myself don't believe that you can reliably assume that old hats run large or small, or that one brand will fit differantly from than another.

And so I've come full circle. Buy a hat in your size and hope for the best. If you want to try going up or down a size from time to time give it a try. A few sellers can measure sweatband circumference (or oval axes) accurately, and this can help, but most can't - even with the best of intentions. Gene's stiff paper method is the one that works best for me.

As with anything, the more information and personal experience we have, the better will be our educated guesses regarding any particular hat.

 

[gtdean48]

...Another thing is, I am technically between sizes and have a Long Oval head shape. Sometimes people with these sorts of peculiarities have harder times finding good fits in vintage hats...

:arated: I'm with Gene here but technically an Extra Long Oval. I have hats from 7 1/2, 7 1/2 Long Oval, 7 1/2 Extra Long Oval, 7 5/8, & 7 5/8 Long Oval, all vintage & all fit. The 7 1/2 do need a hat stretcher from time to time, but so do the others. Now I have modern hats, in particular 3 Akubras, each a different size = 60, 61, 62.
My stand = find out about where you are, don't be afraid to use a hat jack & felt sizing strips!

 

[UWS Cowboy]

I've tried on many vintage hats in my size, even a size up in a used clothing store. All but one, a size up, were too tight to even squeeze on my head. if I saw a really nice one in the store in my size I would have bought it and thrown it over the hat stretcher, then crossed my fingers that it wouldn't taper.

 

[Atticus Finch]

Just a theory here...but it may be that larger hats (7 5/8, 7 3/4, 7 7/8) shrink more as a percentage of their original size because they contain more felt to shrink. In new hats, I normally wear a size 7 5/8---but I would never risk much money on a vintage, size 7 5/8 without first trying in on. On the other hand, when I'm lucky enough to find a size 7 3/4 vintage lid, it always seems to fit very nicely.

AF

 

[carouselvic]

Didn't Seinfeld do a whole episode on shrinkage?

 

[jec]

Another thing is, I am technically between sizes and have a Long Oval head shape. Sometimes people with these sorts of peculiarities have harder times finding good fits in vintage hats.

G'luck!

Thanks Gene -

I think this is exactly my issue, too.

And your stiff paper technique for measuring the interior of the hat sounds like a no-brainer... but I never would have thought of it. Great idea. Thanks.

 

[MattJH]

I'm on the large end of a 7 5/8 or a small end of a 7 3/4, and I've had:

7 1/2 hats that fit perfectly
7 5/8 hats that were too tight
7 3/4 hats that were too large
7 7/8 hats that fit perfectly

And vice versa back and forth.

100% ****shoot. It seems I'm always safe with a 7 3/4 LO.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

As Feltfan's avatar used to say (maybe still does; if it was even Feltfan … someone, anyways): "Stop buying hats on eBay."

Sizing and eBay is a total hit and miss. I feel sorry for sellers most of the time. [huh] It's not only large sized heads that have this problem. Take Dumbjaw's comment above, and translate to a 7 L.O. I havesold almost every hat (except 3) i've ever bought on eBay. The only ones i've kept have been bought in stores/stalls. I have had almost uniformly bad luck buying on eBay - too big, too small, too tight because of my L.O. head …

bk