Vintage silk ties & disintegration

[anon`]

Since I discovered vintage ties, I've had one silk tie completely fall apart when I tried to wear it, and another show such worrying signs that I took it off almost immediately and fear to try any more. When the first one fell apart, I just figured it was in poor shape--too many pressings, perhaps. The fibre felt a little dry in hindsight, also.

But now that I've seen it start to happen to a second silk tie (it doesn't seem to affect those that appear to be made of rayon, or that Palm Beach-y fabric), I'm wondering if that's a common thing to be expected, a common thing to be expected only when a previous owner was careless, or if I'm just unlucky.

Regardless of cause, is it possible to reverse (or at least halt) this deterioration to make the tie wearable?

 

[Marc Chevalier]

Old silk 'shatters' when the main vertical threads or warp start to split or disintegrate. Silk taffetas are prone to this because they were treated with metal salts to give them a desirable opalescent sheen -- which is why few taffeta and moire neckties made by "Sulka" in the '20s and '30s have survived.

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[jamespowers]

Hmmmmm..... I have never had this happen to one of my ties but I don't think that it can't happen. Did it shatter after you tied it and wore it or just int he tying process?
That is really a shame.

Regards,

J

 

[Rosie]

I've heard ladies talk about this with vintage silk dresses or silk fabric. I'm not sure, and not at liberty to search here at school but wasn't there a process "done" (for lack of a better word) to silk back then that makes this happen? [huh] I remember us discussing this in the Powder Room not very long ago. I think DecoDoll and Lauren Henline and some of the better seamstresses among us know much more about it than I ever will.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

I can't remember the process, but some silk was treated in such a manner (sizing? is that what it's called?) that the old stuff shatters and disintegrates. The Baroness had a skirt/jacket set that was fine in the store, but started shattering as soon as she tried to wear it.

I've had a few ties shatter at the point where the knot is tightened. Mainly the 20s silk ties do this.

bk

 

[Twitch]

I wore my Dad's WW 2 flying scarf heavily in the 50s and it disintegrated as well.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

This silk "self destruction" is often caused by the minerals, salts and other substances that were used during the fabric manufacturing to stiffen the fabric and make it weigh more, as well as to give it extra sheen. (Fabrics were often sold by weight. The more they weighed, the more money the manufacturer made.)

These salts can act like tiny razor blades, literally cutting up the fabric--making the silk "shatter." Unfortunately, there is no way to reverse or stop this deterioration.

In the 1930s, the U.S. silk industry changed course by adding less and less mineral substance to silk. It became a selling point for neckties to have tags saying "silk weighted less than 30%". From a 1930s "Brooks Brothers" silk tie:

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[anon`]

Hmmmmm..... I have never had this happen to one of my ties but I don't think that it can't happen. Did it shatter after you tied it and wore it or just int he tying process?
That is really a shame.

Regards,

J

It is a shame, but fortunately ties are both relatively abundant and inexpensive--neither that I'd had this happen to cost more than $10, so it isn't all that difficult to just retire them

As for when the shattering occurred, the first frayed like mad along the edges that were involved in the knot, and it ripped severely on the wide blade in two places when I pulled it through to tighten the knot.
The second one began to shatter along the edges, but only one colour of thread--presumably the warp by Marc's description. After the first experience, I was disappointed to see that happen, but halfway expecting it. That tie is still is pretty good shape, though I shan't be wearing it ever again, and that is a shame, since it's a nice navy with nice, small polka dots on it, a design I've been seeking for years.

Oh well, and thanks for the fabrics lesson!

 

[Maj.Nick Danger]

Wow. I had no idea. Thanks for the inform and I will regretably avoid vintage weighted silk wearables.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

Some vintage necktie silks are more likely to shatter than others. The ones most at risk are satins, moires and taffetas.


Below is a 1930s silk tie that combines all three: it has satin and moire taffeta stripes. So far, so good: no shattering yet. Still, I'm counting the days ...

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[Sefton]

Some vintage necktie silks are more likely to shatter than others. The ones most at risk are satins, moires and taffetas.


Below is a 1930s silk tie that combines all three: it has satin and moire taffeta stripes. So far, so good: no shattering yet. Still, I'm counting the days ...

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Oh,why must the beautiful die so young! (Hey, that tie is probably only about 70 years old. Just a babe...a lovely,silky vintage babe!) .

I had no idea about this phenomenon-I feel like running to the closet right now and checking on my ties!

 

[Tony in Tarzana]

I wonder if you could put the remains in a picture frame, folding the bad part underneath, so you could still at least look at it.

 

[Mr. 'H']

Gosh Marc you are indeed very knowlegeable about this subject.

:eusa_clap