Vintage versus modern ´quality´

[davidraphael]

Vintage vs Modern Hats (also how brand names hike the price)

Maybe someone can explain to me what if anything modern hats have going for them...

In the last few of days I visited a couple of long-running hat shops where I tried on some new Stetsons and Maysers, all in the EUR 200-ish price range (US$270). This may be old info for most people here, but it's not often I actually get to hat shops to try things on.

My thoughts:
-- All the hats felt flimsy, lightweight. I didn't feel like I had anything on my head. Maybe that's a plus for some people, but to me it felt like wearing flip-flops for a hike in the mountains.
-- No lining
-- No leather sweatband
-- Disproportionate ribbons: They weren't thin enough to be 'proper thin', nor were they as thick as a classic fedora. Neither here nor there - like a bland hairstyle that is neither long enough or short enough to have character.
-- The majority of hats had a thin leather band instead of a ribbon (though that might just be because of the hat shop locations - Switzerland and Germany)
-- Lack of colour choice: Who decided on hat colour choices - Henry Ford? ("Any customer can have any colour that he wants so long as it is black"). Nearly all the hats were black or 'light black' or 'darker black' or 'mid-black'. Then there were the browns. Not a chocolate rich brown among them - all were a kind of bland, biscuity brown. Again, neither here nor there. I didn't see a single grey hat in the whole store. And you can forget anything more adventurous.

I also tried on a Stetson hateras newsboy. It was EUR 100. The woman in the shop said "I see you already have one"...but I don't; I was wearing my Olney newsboy which, again not only felt more substantial but was about a 3rd of the price. And, as the indicated by the shop owner's response, at first glance she thought I WAS wearing the more expensive Stetson.

Unless you're going to shop somewhere like Optimo (where you can spend a helluva lotta money), is there any point buying a modern fedora?

 

[job]

I don't own a Stetson or a Mayser so I don't know about them. I also don't have any old hats. I do own Akubra and custom made hats. Compared to my customs the Akubras I have stand up fairly well. They probably have the best sweat bands on a new hat. Akubra does not offer many color choices though. There are still a lot of manufacturers out there, Biltmore, Cervo, Borsalino, Guerra 1855, etc. that make a good hat.

 

[davidraphael]

True, Akubra do feel more substantial - Indeed, I own one. I was just surprised by the flimsiness of the standard over-the-counter fedoras that I tried on (which were actually more expensive than my fed IV)

 

[Young fogey]

Yeah.

As I wrote in another thread, the high-end hat shops near me no longer sell good Dobbses or Stetsons but modern hipsterified things because they sell: such as bastardized Bor$alino$. I have a new Dobb$ but wear almost all old hats (50-60-year-old flea-market treasures) not only for the history and romance but because unlike that fragile Dobb$ I'm not afraid to wear them in the rain. They've literally stood the test of time.

 

[monbla256]

Maybe someone can explain to me what if anything modern hats have going for them...

In the last few of days I visited a couple of long-running hat shops where I tried on some new Stetsons and Maysers, all in the EUR 200-ish price range (US$270). This may be old info for most people here, but it's not often I actually get to hat shops to try things on.

My thoughts:
-- All the hats felt flimsy, lightweight. I didn't feel like I had anything on my head. Maybe that's a plus for some people, but to me it felt like wearing flip-flops for a hike in the mountains.
-- No lining
-- No leather sweatband
-- Disproportionate ribbons: They weren't thin enough to be 'proper thin', nor were they as thick as a classic fedora. Neither here nor there - like a bland hairstyle that is neither long enough or short enough to have character.
-- The majority of hats had a thin leather band instead of a ribbon (though that might just be because of the hat shop locations - Switzerland and Germany)
-- Lack of colour choice: Who decided on hat colour choices - Henry Ford? ("Any customer can have any colour that he wants so long as it is black"). Nearly all the hats were black or 'light black' or 'darker black' or 'mid-black'. Then there were the browns. Not a chocolate rich brown among them - all were a kind of bland, biscuity brown. Again, neither here nor there. I didn't see a single grey hat in the whole store. And you can forget anything more adventurous.

I also tried on a Stetson hateras newsboy. It was EUR 100. The woman in the shop said "I see you already have one"...but I don't; I was wearing my Olney newsboy which, again not only felt more substantial but was about a 3rd of the price. And, as the indicated by the shop owner's response, at first glance she thought I WAS wearing the more expensive Stetson.

Unless you're going to shop somewhere like Optimo (where you can spend a helluva lotta money), is there any point buying a modern fedora?

This is NOT the middle part of the 20th century and never will be. Hats as were made then, in all aspects, will NOT be made again and to try to find out why is the proverbial fruitless excercise Aint gonna be. Accept it and if the criteria of hats that you have for yourself is from that era, then only buy vintage and be happy
As far as your question about "... a modern fedora?" yes if it is made by the ONLY modern production hat company in Australia. They STILL make durable, well made off the shelf daily WEARING hats as used to be made. The style of the "golden era" is NOT the style of now and firms have to sell to the markets that will buy. If you have the need for these types of fedora's, stay buying vintage or go the custom route but don't frustrate yourself with the notion of "why is it not this way now", it isn't and won't be. Enjoy your hats and keep on truckin'

 

[mayserwegener]

In general modern production hats are no match for vintage production hats (yes there were dog vintage hats). As for Mayser they still make some nice higher end hats like this City Finale. To me this hat is better made than modern Borsalinos (also better detail work than Akubra). I believe it was around 120 EURO at my friends store in Augsburg although it was given to me as a gift.

Here is another modern Mayser City Finale (not mine) with a vintage ribbon.

 

[alanfgag]

Maybe someone can explain to me what if anything modern hats have going for them...

I agree that the essence seems to be missing.

I'm not sure that this will make sense if you haven't lived in NYC, but it it would be like trying to get a good egg cream after they stopped making Fox's U Bet syrup. Fortunately for egg creams, they still do.

 

[rlk]

I agree that the essence seems to be missing.

I'm not sure that this will make sense if you haven't lived in NYC, but it it would be like trying to get a good egg cream after they stopped making Fox's U Bet syrup. Fortunately for egg creams, they still do.

 

[Art Fawcett]

This is NOT the middle part of the 20th century and never will be. Hats as were made then, in all aspects, will NOT be made again and to try to find out why is the proverbial fruitless excercise Aint gonna be. Accept it and if the criteria of hats that you have for yourself is from that era, then only buy vintage and be happy
As far as your question about "... a modern fedora?" yes if it is made by the ONLY modern production hat company in Australia. They STILL make durable, well made off the shelf daily WEARING hats as used to be made. The style of the "golden era" is NOT the style of now and firms have to sell to the markets that will buy. If you have the need for these types of fedora's, stay buying vintage or go the custom route but don't frustrate yourself with the notion of "why is it not this way now", it isn't and won't be. Enjoy your hats and keep on truckin'

Having a bad day Monbla??
David, Monbla is right, it's simple economics and market demand. With hat wearing in decline for decades so goes the industry. I'd first like to qualify something. Since I've been in the trade I've discovered that everyone has their own definitions of what a "good" hat is. In your case is seems to be a heavy Akubra which is fine but, in other cases it's how "light" a hat can be and still hold a shape. No single hat or maker can satisfy ALL needs or demands since every one is different yet there aren't enough clients to keep every style maker in business. It really IS a "catch 22"

 

[monbla256]

Having a bad day Monbla??
David, Monbla is right, it's simple economics and market demand. With hat wearing in decline for decades so goes the industry. I'd first like to qualify something. Since I've been in the trade I've discovered that everyone has their own definitions of what a "good" hat is. In your case is seems to be a heavy Akubra which is fine but, in other cases it's how "light" a hat can be and still hold a shape. No single hat or maker can satisfy ALL needs or demands since every one is different yet there aren't enough clients to keep every style maker in business. It really IS a "catch 22"

Thanks Art, you put it better than my feeble attempt. I'm not having a bad day really, just getting tired of the broken record about things one hears all the time these days. Life's TOOO short to be upset so much And yes I am a "fan" of the products made "down under" but for good reason I feel. They are nowhere near the same quality you and other custom makers make, but are closer to what was "standard" fare years ago as far as value for the $s spent. But again, you put it in a much more succint manner than I did

 

[Art Fawcett]

Thanks Art, you put it better than my feeble attempt. I'm not having a bad day really, just getting tired of the broken record about things one hears all the time these days. Life's TOOO short to be upset so much And yes I am a "fan" of the products made "down under" but for good reason I feel. They are nowhere near the same quality you and other custom makers make, but are closer to what was "standard" fare years ago as far as value for the $s spent. But again, you put it in a much more succint manner than I did

No worries Mate!!! I agree, life is WAY too short for sweating the small stuff. Life just is what it is. I'm not down on Akubra, never have been. they make a fine work hat that is consistently good. Where I get derailed is when people go overboard on it's qualities without having benefit of knowing other hats. Not accusing you of this Sir, just in general.

An example would be in the antique car field. There are collectors that have never owned anything but a Model A Ford and tout it as the "greatest car ever " when they've never sat in a Buick, Packard, Noble, White, Marmon, Duesneberg. Such declarations ring hollow to me. The Ford is a fine car that put millions into mobility but really, to put it in the same sentence with an Auburn? I can only shake my head.

 

[mustangman3000]

Don't pet the sweaty things!... ... Wait, hold on... Don't sweat the petty things!

 

[mayserwegener]

An example would be in the antique car field. There are collectors that have never owned anything but a Model A Ford and tout it as the "greatest car ever " when they've never sat in a Buick, Packard, Noble, White, Marmon, Duesneberg. Such declarations ring hollow to me. The Ford is a fine car that put millions into mobility but really, to put it in the same sentence with an Auburn? I can only shake my head.

Also this board is very US centric. For example how many on here have held a pre 1940s P. & C. Habig Wien hat of any type?

 

[scottyrocks]

I agree that the essence seems to be missing.

I'm not sure that this will make sense if you haven't lived in NYC, but it it would be like trying to get a good egg cream after they stopped making Fox's U Bet syrup. Fortunately for egg creams, they still do.

I worked in a school for a short time that was directly across the street from the factory. I couldn't take it, smelling that yummy smell every day.

 

[Art Fawcett]

Also this board is very US centric. For example how many on here have held a pre 1940s P. & C. Habig Wien hat of any type?

I have Sir...very nice quality

 

[Marc Chevalier]

Also this board is very US centric. For example how many on here have held a pre 1940s P. & C. Habig Wien hat of any type?

*raises hand* (But it wasn't mine, alas.)

 

[Marc Chevalier]

.
And for that matter, how many on here have held a pre 1940s "Vimenet" hat from Belgium? Of any type?


http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?41443-My-Best-Fedora-GOODBYE&

 

[mayserwegener]

To me this extends into the pliability of the felt and preceived quality. In German markets you will see vintage factory or shop blocked (not open) hats going way back. The felt will be stiffer because of this but it is not an indication of less quality. For example Borsalinos made specically for the German markets.

 

[frussell]

Different strokes, I guess. For where I live, I want a hat that I can forget I'm wearing because it is so light and comfortable. Other than a few hard-to-find-in-7 7/8 vintage hats, I've only had that kind of luck with Art and TonyB. I'd love to own a fine European hat, but finding one in my size is not easy. I don't really count modern Borsalinos, the ones I've had were as impressive as modern Stetson dress hats. Last thing I want to wear when it's over 115 degrees is a "substantial" hat. I prefer one that is well-made, but feels like I've got nothing on my head. Frank

 

[VetPsychWars]

I agree with Frank, above. I've decided that I want a very light hat, in a thin felt, that has some stiffener in it. With a thin ribbon, the Borsalino Allesandria, vintage Stetson Open Roads, a new Beaver Brand custom teardrop, and a couple of Akubra Campdrafts constitute my "collection", nearly complete. The bluegrass green Campdraft is actually a little heavier than I wanted; I ordered the heritage-grade hat and I'm hoping that one is thinner and lighter.

The thicker-felted Biltmores I have are boxed and waiting for me to decide what to do with them.

Tom