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Vintage vs Repro Buco Collar Snap Locations

pawineguy

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A few of us, led by the intrepid @Superfluous have been discussing the location of collar snaps on reproduction Buco jackets, specifically related to recent J-100s by Diamond Dave, one of which I own. Specifically, the recent J-100 jackets from Dave have the collar snap over the outside stitching, which also places it over the thicker folds of leather:

DSC04467.jpg

On vintage J-100s, on all photos that I have seen or been shown, the snap is located inside of the stitching:

P1000800_zpsfe2c8a97.jpg

Other repros, by GW and RMC also have the snap further to the inside:

collar.jpg RealMcCoysBucoJ10055_zpscf6db233.jpg

Interestingly, when discussing on his Facebook page his new J-21 design, he states the following:

"Of special Note, I found that ALL of the snap caps are pushed out to the very edge of the leather on the four collar snaps as well as the epaulets and belt loops. This is no easy feat when you consider how much leather there is in most of those areas, this leads me to conclude that the Buegeleisen's must have had a pneumaitc machine for setting these."

I looked up pictures of vintage J-24s, J-21s, etc... to see this for myself. Pictures of those follow that show that Dave seems to be totally correct here, the snaps on these WERE clearly moved to the outside over the top of the stitching.

c5fb3d0c63779e9484a111cf683b6736.jpg DSCF7963.jpg forest20110217-img600x527-1451480634gesep2592.jpg IMG_3602.jpg

Here is the DD J-21 where he correctly follows the above snap location:

DD J 71.jpg
 

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pawineguy

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When I brought up RMC J-24 pictures, they seem to have pushed the snaps out over the threads on some jackets but not on others. On some jackets the top collar snaps are one way, and the bottom snaps the other...

DSC_0079-thumb-400x265-47980.jpg DSC_0196-thumb-400x265-47982.jpg DSC01904.jpg

It seems that Dave may have it right on the J-24s and J-21s, but not on the J-100? A bit of an esoteric topic but that's what we do here. Look forward to hearing opinions and seeing other pictures.
 

handymike

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This is very interesting, and begs the question: which do you prefer- exact historical accuracy or a certain look?
I would prefer the snaps back indide the seam stitching BUT I'm not one for EXACT replication either. ;)
Maybe this detail will become a hallmark of DD as well as Buco. To be debated in 50 years.
 

ProteinNerd

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This is above my OCD level, probably prefer inside the stitch line but not enough to really care either way.
 

mr_lits

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Los Anchorage
Interesting detail. IMHO it just feels balanced and placed well inside the stitch lines. Had to check and see how it was on my GW and sure enough it sits nestled right in the middle, with enough leather tab to grasp and pop the snap.

IMG_4203.jpg
 

dan_t

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Sydney, Australia
I too prefer the overall balance of having the snaps inside the stitching. Historical accuracy is one thing, making an asthetically pleasing product is another.
 

navetsea

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East Java
make sense for thinner hide to give more solid base as not to wear and then rip the leather into a hole from daily use especially when not careful with the snaps.
so from utility point of view I can understand, but when thicker & stronger hide is used or if the snap is there more for decoration purpose it shouldn't be needed.
I think it is better to understand the reason behind a design concept rather than following it blindly.
 

handymike

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There are those who like EXACT historical details, and I love that Dave is learning more about the jackets he's duplicating.
I think it's a great option to have, but it should be a choice that is presented to the customer in the beginning stages of the process. Not a surprise upon completion.
I'm all for choices!
At higher price points I don't like surprises.
 

SpeedRcrX

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As discussed with Superfluous in private I think on my J-100 the snap is misplaced a bit if you look at the female part (is it the right term?), it is placed at the edge of the stitching.

48ccd706fd078cb97a8af2e54cb5997a.jpg


If you look at DD's Facebook page on his different J-100 (new pattern) the snap is always at the edge of the stitching.

But like ProteinNerd, I'm not that obsess about snap placement and when I wear the jacket I don't see the snap. I don't use it either since I have a small neck it's really uncomfortable to have the collar close.

What about yours Chris?
 
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pawineguy

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Bucks County, PA
make sense for thinner hide to give more solid base as not to wear and then rip the leather into a hole from daily use especially when not careful with the snaps.
so from utility point of view I can understand, but when thicker & stronger hide is used or if the snap is there more for decoration purpose it shouldn't be needed.
I think it is better to understand the reason behind a design concept rather than following it blindly.

Exactly right, which is why I suppose Buco may have moved the snaps over the stitching to the heavier leather. While esthetically it's more pleasing with the snap inside of the stitching, it can prove to be a weak point when the leather it used as a tab to repeatedly open the snap.
 

pawineguy

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Bucks County, PA
As discussed with Superfluous in private I think on my J-100 the snap is misplaced a bit if you look at the female part (is it the right term?), it is placed at the edge of the stitching.

If you look at DD's Facebook page on his different J-100 (new pattern) the snap is always at the edge of the stitching.

But like ProteinNerd, I'm not that obsess about snap placement and when I wear the jacket I don't see the snap. I don't use it either since I have a small neck it's really uncomfortable to have the collar close.

What about yours Chris?

When I received the jacket I didn't notice it. I was excited by the rest of the pattern / construction / use of NOS zips and snaps and found it to be otherwise very correct. I don't ever snap it and never will. Do I wish it was moved inside of the stitching (probably 1/3")? Yes. Will I let bother me that it's not? No. If it does, will be both plot our revenge on @Superfluous. Damn right we will.
 

SpeedRcrX

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When I received the jacket I didn't notice it. I was excited by the rest of the pattern / construction / use of NOS zips and snaps and found it to be otherwise very correct. I don't ever snap it and never will. Do I wish it was moved inside of the stitching (probably 1/3")? Yes. Will I let bother me that it's not? No. If it does, will be both plot our revenge on @Superfluous. Damn right we will.

Mmm... Now that's a thought! [emoji848]

849d8ccf5cb53246bb09acb76711090d.jpg
 
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