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What are the makers that DO NOT 'skiv their leather or use glue'?

Edward

Bartender
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23,556
Location
London, UK
Not saying this is the case with you, but to me this was a cas of unknown unknown.
When i first joined TFl it was basically an Aero cult.
I did what everybody else did, i bought some Aeros, and like everybody else i thought they where a great jacket, i thought what i was experiencing was how a leather jacket felt, how it was supposed to feel.
It's only after i had worn a bunch of other jackets that i started realizing how poor the Aero fit was.
Had i only worn Aeros in my life i would never have known better.
After i started wearing Lewis Leathers, Freewheelers, Langlitz, Lost Worlds, RMC, Schott, etc, i knew better.

Definitely horses for courses, I've tried, worn or owned all of those except Freewheelers and Langlitz (beyond what I''d pay for a jacket anyhow, so), and a bunch more, but the Aeros I prefer. Great thst we all have options, though, to find what best suits us. Interesting too how different makers go in and out of fashion, cycle of life, I guess.
 

zebedee

One Too Many
Messages
1,604
Location
Shanghai
So actually those of us who own and enjoy one, two or more of Aero's jackets we simply own "potato sacks" (a term once used by a banned here jacket maker who actually once threatened you personally)? Or our bodies are less "human" as you say to the rest of you?
As a friend I'd advise using less extreme phrasing Carlos because this post is offending.
I am the shape of a potato sack. I see no problem.
 

El Marro

My Mail is Forwarded Here
Messages
3,150
Location
California
Dude, not trying to start a beef here, but as I read this paragraph it occurred to me that you yourself talk almost entirely about Japanese jackets as well. Therefore I am not terribly surprised that your conversation went in that direction with Ken.
Edit: I wanted to add that I am not doubting your account and I think it is poor form when one maker badmouths another to make themselves look or feel better.
 
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dudewuttheheck

My Mail is Forwarded Here
Messages
3,540
Dude, not trying to start a beef here, but as I read this paragraph it occurred to me that you yourself talk almost entirely about Japanese jackets as well. Therefore I am not terribly surprised that your conversation went in that direction with Ken.
Edit: I wanted to add that I am not doubting your account and I think it is poor form when one maker badmouths another to make themselves look or feel better.

That's fair enough. It was just a general question that I asked, though. It was not following a Japanese leather jacket discussion. With that said, you are right and that is a good point to bring up. That very well may have been why he talked more about Japanese jackets. No beef at all I'm glad you pointed that out.

@Grayland my bad! I was replying rather quickly. My mistake.
 

zebedee

One Too Many
Messages
1,604
Location
Shanghai
It seems simple enough - if you don't like skived leather, Aero is your choice. If skiving is your thing, other makers are available.

If Ken Calder and co. don't skive leather and have a reason for that decision which they stick by and are open about, it isn't as if it's a concealed error or some sort of duplicity: it seems that a few sentences are getting microscopically dissected. Given that the bloke was directly asked about Japanese jackets, it is unsurprising that he would then oblige the asker by answering in full. This is a far cry from someone obsessively bringing it up when no question had been asked - it is misrepresentation to present the one thing as the other.

I thought it was weird when I found glue in a Simmons Bilt jacket, but it seems the norm. I'd love to get a Japanese jacket at some point, but they seem (to me) to fit poorly on Western body types almost as a rule.

The webpage puts it all out for ya...
Making an Aero leathers jacket (aeroleatherclothing.com)
 
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JMax

I'll Lock Up
Messages
8,346
I love my Aero. Easy to wear.

E4DDD2E4-64EC-4900-B185-F85DB4D9AF4F.jpeg
 

JMax

I'll Lock Up
Messages
8,346
The jacket looks fantastic.
Can you please give us an insight on how CHIPS jacket fits?
Is the bottom hem more cinched up (smaller) compared to hwm?
Would be great if you post the measurements when you have spare time.

Thanks. I will get measurements up soon. I am no Aero expert. Far from it. Pretty sure it’s the HWM pattern. I am normally a 42/44, even a 46 in vintage jackets, and I went with a 40 Chips and a one size down taper to the bottom hem. It did away with the box shape of the HWM/Chips. It’s the way to go with this jacket, IMO.
 

high-maintenance

One of the Regulars
Messages
252
Thanks. I will get measurements up soon. I am no Aero expert. Far from it. Pretty sure it’s the HWM pattern. I am normally a 42/44, even a 46 in vintage jackets, and I went with a 40 Chips and a one size down taper to the bottom hem. It did away with the box shape of the HWM/Chips. It’s the way to go with this jacket, IMO.
Thank you. I really dig the design of the CHIPS. Have you replaced the zipper? looks like it is a two way zipper not the standard talon.
 

JMax

I'll Lock Up
Messages
8,346
Thank you. I really dig the design of the CHIPS. Have you replaced the zipper? looks like it is a two way zipper not the standard talon.

24” P2P
20.5” Hem (a tad more)
19.5” S2S

I had to install a new zip when the #5 Talon went kaput. My only complaint with Aero is their refusal to install larger zips when a customer asks for it. I know what I want and need. Otherwise, awesome jacket. I went two-way because I like their versatility. I have them on my Vanson and on one of my LW too.
 

high-maintenance

One of the Regulars
Messages
252
24” P2P
20.5” Hem (a tad more)
19.5” S2S

I had to install a new zip when the #5 Talon went kaput. My only complaint with Aero is their refusal to install larger zips when a customer asks for it. I know what I want and need. Otherwise, awesome jacket. I went two-way because I like their versatility. I have them on my Vanson and on one of my LW too.
I agree. I had an Aero jacket whose zipper failed after like 5 wears. Heavy hide jackets (cxl weight) need Heavier duty zippers imo.
Thank you for the measurements!
 

Canuck Panda

Call Me a Cab
Messages
2,297
@high-maintenance
To be honest I am not 100 percent sure which of my jackets are skived or not. Except the one I bought the leather myself.
When it’s done right, both method works well. That’s why I can’t tell. It’s when the glue shows (skived method), or when stitches skips (unskived method), that becomes the problem. But this is a quality control problem not a skive/unskived process problem.
For example:
LW, very thick horse hide, some parts seems to be skived and other seams kept unskived. Pic of what I think is skived seam, 4 layers 7mm thick. LW has the cleanest stitches for thickest leather. Period. But they cost too much.
580E5154-AE32-43B4-A476-ADFABB743655.jpeg

Simmonsbilt, I believe these are unskived seams, 4 layers of leather 8mm thick. Most bang for buck for fancy leather options. But sizing can be hit and miss.
4DFA3F84-E373-4595-A569-D428AADDBF09.jpeg

Aeros FQHH are actually not that thick, their steerhide is different story though, 4 layers FQHH unskived 6mm thick. Sale page provides best value. If you wait long enough the right deal shows up, always.
8F062D0C-DA96-4D9E-B45D-A82CABAD17D0.jpeg

Finally this is the Johnson M500 I sent him my own Horween cow. The leather is 2mm ish thick, and JL uses skived method at the seams, not the whole panel. 4 layers of leather, 5mm thick, at the seams.
D55727FC-8D04-4A22-9527-BCC00CE923CD.jpeg

JL keep the panels original thickness, 2 layers of 2mm ish leather, 4 mm.
42F770E1-AD17-46E2-B893-AD8337F68E09.jpeg


I didn’t list any makers using 1.4mm leather or thinner. Because that wouldn’t even matter skived or not, like what HH said earlier post.

I also had thought that skived shoulder seams are better for comfort, but I was wrong. It has more to do with where the shoulder seam hangs on the shoulder. The only way to find out which one is best for you is by trying them. Wish there were an easier way but unfortunately no.

BE229E4E-953E-4761-9764-22F392A2EF2E.jpeg


I remember looking at your Columbia in the Classifieds. I am quite certain Langlitz also don’t skive, but I could be wrong. And they use 1.4mm cow which isn’t super thick. To fully experience the unskived seams it’s gotta be 1.8mm leather or thicker. Good luck on your next one.
 

high-maintenance

One of the Regulars
Messages
252
@high-maintenance
To be honest I am not 100 percent sure which of my jackets are skived or not. Except the one I bought the leather myself.
When it’s done right, both method works well. That’s why I can’t tell. It’s when the glue shows (skived method), or when stitches skips (unskived method), that becomes the problem. But this is a quality control problem not a skive/unskived process problem.
For example:
LW, very thick horse hide, some parts seems to be skived and other seams kept unskived. Pic of what I think is skived seam, 4 layers 7mm thick. LW has the cleanest stitches for thickest leather. Period. But they cost too much.
View attachment 393219
Simmonsbilt, I believe these are unskived seams, 4 layers of leather 8mm thick. Most bang for buck for fancy leather options. But sizing can be hit and miss.
View attachment 393220
Aeros FQHH are actually not that thick, their steerhide is different story though, 4 layers FQHH unskived 6mm thick. Sale page provides best value. If you wait long enough the right deal shows up, always.
View attachment 393221
Finally this is the Johnson M500 I sent him my own Horween cow. The leather is 2mm ish thick, and JL uses skived method at the seams, not the whole panel. 4 layers of leather, 5mm thick, at the seams.
View attachment 393222
JL keep the panels original thickness, 2 layers of 2mm ish leather, 4 mm.
View attachment 393223

I didn’t list any makers using 1.4mm leather or thinner. Because that wouldn’t even matter skived or not, like what HH said earlier post.

I also had thought that unskived shoulder seams are better for comfort, but I was wrong. It has more to do with where the shoulder seam hangs on the shoulder. The only way to find out which one is best for you is by trying them. Wish there were an easier way but unfortunately no.

View attachment 393224

I remember looking at your Columbia in the Classifieds. I am quite certain Langlitz also don’t skive, but I could be wrong. And they use 1.4mm cow which isn’t super thick. To fully experience the unskived seams it’s gotta be 1.8mm leather or thicker. Good luck on your next one.
Thank you so much for such a thorough answer. You have a nice collection.
Like I said its more of a personal preference, not an indicator of quality or lack thereof.
And as for my Langlitz Columbia, sadly I still havent found a willing buyer.
 

TheDonEffect

Practically Family
Messages
527
Yeah not skiving edges is like high stitch count, just not necessary especially if there are other issues present.

But for some, historical accuracy trumps everything else. Everyone needs a hobby I just wish hobbyists didn't elevate unnecessary things. Like I'm a car guy but I don't recommend a jaguar e type to a friend needing a family vehicle.
 

born113

One of the Regulars
Messages
266
designed to fit a human body rather than a potato sac.
I already wanted to use this expression 100 times, but I did not know if it was possible to do it in a tolerant society :)

One of the peculiarities of the present time, that is, too good medicine, is that most people on the planet have just such a body shape.

I'm just surprised that none of the small manufacturers thought to draw body diagrams next to each jacket model.

And for me it would be enough to determine whether it is worth starting to contact the manufacturer at all, at least information about the level of formal education of business owners. Sometimes I break down and disagree with unscientific statements, and the contact is cut off on the other side. And I often do not understand what exactly was the reason for this. Was it an interethnic mental break or a person lives by the belief that the Earth is flat.

* Everything I have said does not apply to specific manufacturers of jackets, but to any small business.
 
Messages
15,424
It seems simple enough - if you don't like skived leather, Aero is your choice. If skiving is your thing, other makers are available.

If Ken Calder and co. don't skive leather and have a reason for that decision which they stick by and are open about, it isn't as if it's a concealed error or some sort of duplicity: it seems that a few sentences are getting microscopically dissected. Given that the bloke was directly asked about Japanese jackets, it is unsurprising that he would then oblige the asker by answering in full. This is a far cry from someone obsessively bringing it up when no question had been asked - it is misrepresentation to present the one thing as the other.

I thought it was weird when I found glue in a Simmons Bilt jacket, but it seems the norm. I'd love to get a Japanese jacket at some point, but they seem (to me) to fit poorly on Western body types almost as a rule.

The webpage puts it all out for ya...
Making an Aero leathers jacket (aeroleatherclothing.com)

This post is bona fide truth.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with not skiving and not using glue. To cut all nonsense right here and now...
  • Fact # 1 is that unglued and uskived jackets are (more) repair/alteration friendly.
  • Fact no. 2; Aero is capable of skiving just as your neighborhood cobbler is capable of skiving, if needed.
  • And finally, fact number three is that unskived jackets are tougher to build as unskived, raw hide is extremely difficult to work with. Won't even start about the sort of machinery the maker has to operate to successfully work with unskived hides that are regularly 1.5+ mm thick.
Is it necessary, though? No, but it's sorta cool considering that - Another bonus fact - any maker that skives and glues chose the easy way.
Zara jackets are all skived and glued. It's the fashion standard and that's okay but it's not better.

Aero has pattern issues for sure but their workmanship is as good as it gets.
 
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