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What are the makers that DO NOT 'skiv their leather or use glue'?

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14,631
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Chicago
You sir have a magnificient collection.
Which aero jacket do you think is most comfortable and non-restricting?
And is your J106 motorcycle jacket comfortable around the waist (bottom hem)?
I have some excessive girth so bottom hem is an important factor for me when choosing the size but Aero does not provide the bottom hem measurements... (my size 44 cafe racer fits well in the chest and shoulder but too tight around the torso when zipped up)
I don't own any of those anymore, all I have now is a closet full of true vintage pieces. I think my favorite pattern remains the 50' halfbelt (in the photos I have one shown in midnight blue, black and cordovan). The bootlegger is a nice pattern too. My least favorite are the CR and PHWM. J 106 is great but has a bit of taper.
 

high-maintenance

One of the Regulars
Messages
250
I don't own any of those anymore, all I have now is a closet full of true vintage pieces. I think my favorite pattern remains the 50' halfbelt (in the photos I have one shown in midnight blue, black and cordovan). The bootlegger is a nice pattern too. My least favorite are the CR and PHWM. J 106 is great but has a bit of taper.
Thanks for sharing your insight.
 

Aloysius

Practically Family
Messages
928
The Japanese are not pretending that their technique is superior to others. And they are not saying something along the lines of "our jackets are superior to Scottish made jackets because of this feature" whereas Aero...

Actually, they 100% do this, often by whispering gossip about other brands. Furthermore, their dealers in the West go all in on "JAPANESE IS ALWAYS THE BEST" (which is far from the marketing or belief in Japan, where American and British made stuff is adored.)

Pretty much all the Japanese brands have some kind of personal beef with each other. For instance, the current RMC has a grudge with every company that is affiliated with the original iteration of RMC (like Toys McCoy, Freewheelers, Buzz Rickson's) and its ownership will spread rumors about them. The owner of current RMC likes to tell people that his competition is all secretly made in China, for example.

Aero doesn't skive because they follow the construction methods of a particular era of American jackets (despite being British themselves), which includes not skiving. I said myself I don't think this is a good match with some of the heavyweight leathers they use– but the fact that they do this takes more effort, not less. Skiving is not some super-skill. Every single leatherworker can do it.

An Alpha flight jacket will have a completely smooth arm, unlike a Buzz Rickson's or RMC. There's no 'practical' benefit to the latter, and it arguably looks sloppy. I still prefer it.
 

TooManyHatsOnlyOneHead

Call Me a Cab
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2,015
I never really looked for it, if a jacket suits you it will look good even it is not perfectly fitting. Case in point my tan Thedi made me look good even with a 10kg fluctuation in weight.
I hear ya. That's why I put it in quotes. I've made my expectations a lot more reasonable from where I started. I'm ok with some stray lines, a fit that I can properly breathe in, etc. etc. But that clump of material creasing like that isn't necessarily a question of fit. It doesn't look right and more importantly, there's other jackets and other manufacturers that don't have that issue. I'm going to keep playing around with it, maybe take to a good tailor to see what they think. That gorgeous brown CXL makes we want to keep trying. I finally got it all broken in and it's so nice.
 

DorKlonn

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Actually, they 100% do this, often by whispering gossip about other brands. Furthermore, their dealers in the West go all in on "JAPANESE IS ALWAYS THE BEST" (which is far from the marketing or belief in Japan, where American and British made stuff is adored.)

Pretty much all the Japanese brands have some kind of personal beef with each other. For instance, the current RMC has a grudge with every company that is affiliated with the original iteration of RMC (like Toys McCoy, Freewheelers, Buzz Rickson's) and its ownership will spread rumors about them. The owner of current RMC likes to tell people that his competition is all secretly made in China, for example.

Im curious where this is coming from? As it seems very substance-less and based on a lot of guess work. Wouldnt you say that Western dealers favoring japanese made jackets is comparable to Japanese dealers favoring western jackets? Just curious as to what the evidence for this 'slander' is? Cause although liking aero jackets myself, its been documented and shown that Calder does go around quite vocally disparaging other makers. With the latest being quite evident in the Diamond Dave thread were he basically makes fun of DD for going out of business and having bad jackets.

Skiving is not some super-skill. Every single leatherworker can do it.

I think this statement is also unfair, although any leatherworker can skive, it still takes skill to do it well and with precision to suit a garment. The same way that anyone can do a nonskived jacket, but not everyone can do it well, persay, your example of Aero.
 

dudewuttheheck

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3,527
What's funny about this is that this just makes me want to try on an Aero Hooch Hauler... just to see if I like the fit of it more than my A-1. I'd be happy to eat my own words if that jacket fit me well haha. I always liked the way that jacket looked in general.
 

TooManyHatsOnlyOneHead

Call Me a Cab
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2,015
I'd like to nominate @MrProper for nobel peace prize. Check out this before/after. I added a sock across my shoulder, essentially creating lift. While I will neither confirm nor deny having added socks to other parts of my clothing for various reasons :cool: I can confirm this is game changing. Still some work to do and massive improvement, and I'm sure with the right amount of padding and properly sewn in will be even better.

And besides just the visual impact so you don't think im some sort of diva, the weight of the jacket now redistributes over the entire shoulder vs hang from neck.

20220106_131134.jpg
20220106_131049.jpg


before in case not totally obvious as I hope to be
20220106_101306.jpg
20220106_101245.jpg
 

red devil

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Actually, they 100% do this, often by whispering gossip about other brands. Furthermore, their dealers in the West go all in on "JAPANESE IS ALWAYS THE BEST" (which is far from the marketing or belief in Japan, where American and British made stuff is adored.)

Pretty much all the Japanese brands have some kind of personal beef with each other. For instance, the current RMC has a grudge with every company that is affiliated with the original iteration of RMC (like Toys McCoy, Freewheelers, Buzz Rickson's) and its ownership will spread rumors about them. The owner of current RMC likes to tell people that his competition is all secretly made in China, for example.

Aero doesn't skive because they follow the construction methods of a particular era of American jackets (despite being British themselves), which includes not skiving. I said myself I don't think this is a good match with some of the heavyweight leathers they use– but the fact that they do this takes more effort, not less. Skiving is not some super-skill. Every single leatherworker can do it.

An Alpha flight jacket will have a completely smooth arm, unlike a Buzz Rickson's or RMC. There's no 'practical' benefit to the latter, and it arguably looks sloppy. I still prefer it.

Where does this come from? I know that some fans of Japanese goods in general can be overly enthusiastic, but I have not had any dealer tell me "JAPANESE IS ALWAYS THE BEST".

Futhermore, I speak Japanese and often go to Japan, and have never had any of the maker diss others like that. And especially not all makers from a specific country like Ken did.

And how is it a fact that it is easier to skive jackets? As mentioned earlier, if it were better why is Greg skiving his jackets? I highly doubt he took the "easy" way.

I hear ya. That's why I put it in quotes. I've made my expectations a lot more reasonable from where I started. I'm ok with some stray lines, a fit that I can properly breathe in, etc. etc. But that clump of material creasing like that isn't necessarily a question of fit. It doesn't look right and more importantly, there's other jackets and other manufacturers that don't have that issue. I'm going to keep playing around with it, maybe take to a good tailor to see what they think. That gorgeous brown CXL makes we want to keep trying. I finally got it all broken in and it's so nice.

Maybe try contacting JL? If there is a fix, they should be able to do it and they are experienced with CXL. And yes, I agree, that clump of material is a pattern issue not a fit issue. REminds me that these jackets crease on normal hangers while others don't. Hence that weird hanger Aero sells
 

Canuck Panda

One Too Many
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1,936
Not derailing this thread, but does anyone here has all three jackets for comparison? LW Suburban vs JL M200 vs Aero Sheene?
Seemingly similar designs but I bet very different pattern and fits. The dress collar cafe racers really is the swiss army of leather jackets. I didn't realize this until seeing all the pics in this thread.
 

Aloysius

Practically Family
Messages
928
Where does this come from? I know that some fans of Japanese goods in general can be overly enthusiastic, but I have not had any dealer tell me "JAPANESE IS ALWAYS THE BEST".

I have heard this from the proprietors of almost every workwear-related store in America…

Futhermore, I speak Japanese and often go to Japan, and have never had any of the maker diss others like that. And especially not all makers from a specific country like Ken did.

And how is it a fact that it is easier to skive jackets? As mentioned earlier, if it were better why is Greg skiving his jackets? I highly doubt he took the "easy" way.

Well, if you haven't encountered it, be glad for that but these kinds of attacks and gimmicks are a big part of the 'workwear' brands' modus operandi. The recent madness with CSF is the most recent example.

Don't put words in my mouth. I didn't say skiving is some copout technique. I said that not skiving does take additional (arguably useless) effort, so choosing that it is obviously very deliberate, whether or not one prefers the result.

Hand stitching is more labour intensive than machine stitching, and there are hand-stitched shirts but I prefer my machine-stitched Turnbull & Asser shirts. I don't consider them 'the easy way'.
 

Marc mndt

I'll Lock Up
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4,934
What's funny about this is that this just makes me want to try on an Aero Hooch Hauler... just to see if I like the fit of it more than my A-1. I'd be happy to eat my own words if that jacket fit me well haha.
It may or may not fit you well, but I don't think it can be any worse than this particular LW.

FA8E22E0-38F0-4B09-8313-748E9DCE4EC3.jpeg


it still looks pretty decent on me to be honest. This is a pretty solid pattern, though I think the arms are just too wide. Yes, you could say it looks better just because I'm smaller here, but still, I think this helps show that Lost Worlds does good patterns.
I don't think this jacket shows good pattern at all. The left sleeve looks like it's twisted.
 

dudewuttheheck

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It may or may not fit you well, but I don't think it can be any worse than this particular LW.

View attachment 393415


I don't think this jacket shows good pattern at all. The left sleeve looks like it's twisted.
Fair enough. I do think the sleeves are way too wide. It is used so I didn't think that was down to pattern. In hindsight, this jacket was a bad example and I will admit that. I'm going to go back and remove it from the post.
 

Aloysius

Practically Family
Messages
928
Sorry, missed this one while I was replying.

Im curious where this is coming from? As it seems very substance-less and based on a lot of guess work. Wouldnt you say that Western dealers favoring japanese made jackets is comparable to Japanese dealers favoring western jackets? Just curious as to what the evidence for this 'slander' is?

Based on talking to the proprietors of the workwear shops in the US, all of whom insist Japanese is always the best.

No, the Japanese like the American stuff because of the 'heritage', which is why you also see things like Lee Archives Japan. It's not based on a claim that any place makes the ultimate, better than everywhere, stuff. The American marketing of Japanese workwear is based on such a claim.

I think this statement is also unfair, although any leatherworker can skive, it still takes skill to do it well and with precision to suit a garment. The same way that anyone can do a nonskived jacket, but not everyone can do it well, persay, your example of Aero.

I am not belittling skiving! I'm responding to AVS's claimed "general consensus" that Aero doesn't skive because of laziness. If you're lazy, you're not going to take on the insane task of sewing unskived seams of 4oz+ CXL steerhide!
 

Blackadder

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China
Where does this come from? I know that some fans of Japanese goods in general can be overly enthusiastic, but I have not had any dealer tell me "JAPANESE IS ALWAYS THE BEST".

Futhermore, I speak Japanese and often go to Japan, and have never had any of the maker diss others like that. And especially not all makers from a specific country like Ken did.

And how is it a fact that it is easier to skive jackets? As mentioned earlier, if it were better why is Greg skiving his jackets? I highly doubt he took the "easy" way.



Maybe try contacting JL? If there is a fix, they should be able to do it and they are experienced with CXL. And yes, I agree, that clump of material is a pattern issue not a fit issue. REminds me that these jackets crease on normal hangers while others don't. Hence that weird hanger Aero sells
I agree. It is also not "all Japanese brands have beef with each other" if it is only RMC speaking out against the rest, is it?
And I doubt the beef came purely from hostile competition, the current owner of RM came in as white knight to save the bankrupted RM but then creative difference, management style etc etc led to all previous parties leaving RM. It basically became a takeover but being in Japan all parties avoid using that word. Some of those differences may very well be personal but I have not heard any of them speaking ill of others in public.
FYI, RM owner also took over Denime when it went into financial difficulty. He then sold it to another company. Given that he saved their company names and that is a big deal in Japan, they are not going to speak ill of him in public even though they may not be on good terms.
I also highly doubt the old RM owner i.e. the TM owner would speak ill of BR because I think those two still maintain some level of cooperation.
 

DorKlonn

New in Town
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46
Location
New York
Sorry, missed this one while I was replying.

No worries!

No, the Japanese like the American stuff because of the 'heritage', which is why you also see things like Lee Archives Japan. It's not based on a claim that any place makes the ultimate, better than everywhere, stuff. The American marketing of Japanese workwear is based on such a claim.

Isn't this statement a little disingenuous, you are making a sweeping statement of everyone without providing substantial claim to such. Also, assuming truth in that statement, isn't the fault on the overzealous fans/vendors rather than the makers themselves then?

Also perhaps its my fault, but reading the statement: "but the fact that they do this takes more effort, not less. Skiving is not some super-skill. Every single leatherworker can do it." Made me think that you were placing skiving as some common run of the mill skill, and in some ways belittling it; but it could just be my reading comprehension.
 
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