What is the style of "tie" Brett used as Holmes?

Discussion in 'General Attire & Accoutrements' started by Tiller, Mar 19, 2009.

  1. Tiller

    Tiller Practically Family

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    Before I begin let me say, hello Ladies and Gentlemen! It's an honor to meet everybody. I'm a 23 year old newbie to the whole vintage community.

    I was wondering if anyone could enlighten me on what you would call the tie (if it can even be called that) Jeremy Brett always wore when he played Sherlock Holmes for Granada Television. Although before the "golden age" proper I wonder what's the story behind this simple Victorian tie. It seems to me to simply be a piece of silk tied around his neck. Or perhaps it is a type of bow tie, that I am simply ignorant? Here are some pictures for those of you who have not seen the series.

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  2. Queue

    Queue Familiar Face

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    It looks to my admittedly amature eye to be a bow tie with the ends tucked under the collar.
     
  3. Tiller

    Tiller Practically Family

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    Maybe that is all it is. I was wondering though if perhaps it was a part of Victorian fashion that simply didn't survive much past the turn of the century. Although it seems that the Holmes drawn by Sidney Paget also wore the tie, not matter what it is lol.

    [​IMG]
     
  4. avedwards

    avedwards Call Me a Cab

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    Most Holmes' wear that tie. Peter Cushing does, Basil Rathbone does in parts of the two films done with Fox (which are set in Victorian times). And oddly enough Cushing also wears one in the role of the elderly Professor Van Helsing in "Dracula AD 1972" made and set in (gasp) 1972.

    Looking in the mirror and comparing it to some of the pictures the idea of a bow tie with the edges tucked under the collar seems right, as it's more than just a piece of silk (it has some sort of bow tie resembling knot).
     
  5. Tiller

    Tiller Practically Family

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    I have an entire DVD set with Rathbone's Holmes work on it. Sadly it's been awhile since I've watched them. Truth be told I watched the films first on youtube, and bought the DVD set afterwords, and have as of yet not watched the DVDs at all lol. Guess I never noticed it before. Maybe it will be a good excuse to watch those 40 classics.

    If so was this style common in the Victorian age? I've tried a few websites about the Victorian era, and have found nothing on it. I've also looked at some early 20th century websites, but alas no luck there either.

    Perhaps it's a style that was only used by college Professor's and other "inteligencia" in the Victorian age, and that's why Sidney Paget decided to draw Holmes wearing it.
     
  6. A variant of this style --the "crossover" tie-- rose to fashion in the early 1960s. Sammy Davis Jr., Eddie Fisher and other entertainers made it popular.
     
  7. Geesie

    Geesie Practically Family

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    These days it's pretty much just worn by women.
     
  8. Lokar

    Lokar A-List Customer

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    It is indeed a bow tie that Brett uses. You'll notice just how high up his waistcoat goes (compared to the waistcoats worn by almost every other actor in the series) - You can see in several clips in the show that the bow tie is tucked under the waistcoat as well, and that if it wasn't as high it would poke out from the collar.

    Almost all the Strand magazine artwork I've looked at has shown Holmes wearing a bow tie in this style, so I think we can say it was at least acceptable in Victorian society, although likely not common.

    I've tried to wear the style a few times, but my waistcoats go too low and, worse, my bow ties are too wide and poke out of the collar far too much.
     
  9. Warbaby

    Warbaby One Too Many

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    I have one of these - black fabric joined by a round button of knotted silk cord. The fabric is a black on black pattern that I've seen on 1920s bow ties. I've always wondered what it should be worn with and for what sort of occasion.
     
  10. avedwards

    avedwards Call Me a Cab

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    This is just a random guess, but these days I would wear one on occaisions where a tie would be too formal, but you still want to look smart. Such as if you are hosting a neigbour get-together and a tie would make people feel uncomfortable, but one of these would make you look smart enough as the host. Just my £0.02 (or $0.02 for those of you on the other side of the Atlantic).
     
  11. Paisley

    Paisley I'll Lock Up

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    I wore something similar when I was in the Air Force. It was just a piece of fabric, no tying required, held in place with velcro or snaps.

    I just have to say that I love Jeremy Brett as Sherlock Holmes. :)
     
  12. Geesie

    Geesie Practically Family

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    Army and Navy have the same thing.
     
  13. vintage68

    vintage68 Practically Family

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    I'm rewatching the series now.

    I always thought that Brett was THE Holmes, the best of any actor that undertook the role.
     
  14. Tiller

    Tiller Practically Family

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    I sent this question to a man who runs a big Sherlock Holmes website. He responded by saying he believed that Holmes's tie was a throw back to an earlier era. Specifically he said he though it was a Cravat. Probably along the lines of one of the designs below, combined with a Victorian shirt.


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  15. Lefty

    Lefty I'll Lock Up

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    re-popularized by the Cosby Show
     
  16. Feraud

    Feraud Bartender

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    I would guess that is correct.

    Edit- As demonstrated in this pic.
    [​IMG]
     
  17. Nope. It's a bowtie, not a cravat.

    .
     
  18. Slim Portly

    Slim Portly One Too Many

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    I just rewatched the TNG episode, "Elementary, Dear Data." and sure enough this version of our hero is wearing a bowtie tucked under his collar.

    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    (sorry, these were the bigggest images I could find)
     
  19. Warbaby

    Warbaby One Too Many

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    Here's a photo of the "crossover" tie that I mentioned in my earlier post:

    [​IMG]
     

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