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Would You Squeal?

cowboy76

Suspended
Messages
394
Location
Pennsylvania, circa 1940
panamag8or said:
In this day and age, you certainly don't want to confront the kid shoplifting at the mall, you might get shot.

Unless you have a carry permit,...

Either way I'd confront a shoplifter at the mall and anywhere else also.
The problem is to many people have this attitude of looking the other way, and so crimes of all sizes and types go unpunished, thus perpetuating the problem into something rampant.

Right now in Philadelphia we are faced with the rediculous attitude of "dont snitch" that comes from the hip-hop world. Its something seen on the news often. Most mature black people can't stand the saying or attitude also seen in interviews of folks in the city.
Well, this "dont snitch" crap has only perpetuated MORE crime that people DO see and dont do anything about other than hand out flyers and cry after the fact that crime rises.
Lots of talk, but not the right kind,....lots of action, but mostly mis-directed and uneducated. Give the people the means they need by knowledge and the people will have power, perpetuate the lack of knowledge and ignorance and civilization will implode!

So, yes, I'd confront the kid stealing,...and if he pulls a gun, so be it, I'll just defend myself likewise.
 

sweetfrancaise

Practically Family
Messages
568
Location
Southern California
Mike in Seattle said:
So because bootleggers feel the price of a CD or digital download is too expensive, we should give them a pass on it? OK...I'd like a Lexus but they're awfully pricey for my budget, so if I go steal one (which is in fact exactly what the bootleggers & pirates are doing, only on a smaller ticket item), you'll speak on my behalf at the trial?

Certainly it's justice for Jammie Thomas. She knew the legal ramifications going in and chose to ignore it, and it wasn't that she was giving a few tapes to a few friends. Just because "bootleggers are an underground part of the digital trend" doesn't mean it's legal nor that should it be condoned.

I understand your point but...I just don't think that attacking the little guy is going to solve any problems. Fining hurts the person who can't defend themselves well enough--think about all the high-and-mightys who were able to hire very expensive, very sharp lawyers to get off the hook. Stopping individual bootleggers will do nothing to stem the trend, because they aren't high profile enough. What is needed is not the band-aid solution of snitching on the perpetrator. It's finding out why it's rampant, and doing a larger, wider spreading action. It may be impossible, but this current idea of tattling is not going to help either. I'm not condoning the action, per se, but I can't find a good enough reason to snitch on someone for bootlegging.

And with Jammie Thomas, the industry never lost any money. The people who took advantage of her downloads would have found someone else to gain the songs from, and the industry wouldn't have any extra sales to begin with. So fining her $220,000 is unfair. It's money they wouldn't have, period, regardless of the illegal downloads.

*I want to make sure that I'm not offending anyone in particular--this is a topic that hits close to home, as I have family in the music industry who share my opinions. It's a common topic of discussion, and I'm just making points that I've gathered, not trying to stir anything up.
 
For the reasons stated (that is, safety), i wouldn't confront a shoplifter. but i would certainly point them out to the security team: Their job is to deal with that. They are trained, i am not. I certainly ain't gonna pretend any macho-ness for myself to "take him down".

As for piracy, i would report it. I have reported the damned chinese gang that sells bootleg DVDs on Walthamstow High Street. I see them still doing it, so hopefully the police are focussing on getting the guys who are pimping these "street sellers". They do a lot of business. I think people who buy from them simply turn a blind eye to the gangs, the drug lords, the pimps, the gangsters who are running this business for huge profits, and in turn running many many people - mainly drug addicts, to whom they maintain a steady supply of the product they need - into the ground.

This is not the case of some guy sitting with a video camera in a movie theatre so his mates can see the movie for free. This is international gangs stealing stuff from the cutting room floor (and, from what i've heard, with the active connivance of the movie companies - right to the top of the companies' hierarchies).

bk

p.s. As Wes touched on earlier, it's not because of reduced revenues for the Sonys and EMIs of the world that we're against bootlegging and sharing movies. And it's not for the lost revenues of the U2s or Rolling Stones of the world. It's for the lost revenues for the Benny Holidays, and some of my friends here in London. Relatively small audience base and not particularly many record (or equally movie) sales (when compared to the behemoths mentioned previously). For every record sold, i'm sure it's written into friend Benny's contract that he gets a cut - his royalties. So when you copy his CD for a friend, you are stealing directly from the pocket of friend Benny. But, to be clear, just because someone sells tons of records and doesn't really need those royalties, the same principle applies. Once we start making decisions on right vs. wrong based upon how rich the artist already is, the system falls apart.
 

Elaina

One Too Many
Well, that would require me to shell out $8.50 at the theatre, sit close enough to anyone to notice (and since I'm also newly single, let my date know he's dull enough I was paying more attention to everything but the movie he paid for and him)...probably not. I just am not there to see it.

I have reported shoplifiting. I hate the practice, always have. Problem is, stores don't do anything becuase they don't see it personally, and kids know it, so confronting them (which I have) clues you in real quick to the way that works.
 

EvenOdd

New in Town
Messages
36
Location
Missouri
As for videotaping the movie in the theater, those who buy these cam rips are punishing themselves for watching garbage. I'd rather be kicked in the yahoo than watch some fuzzy video.

As for dvd-screeners and dvd-rips.... well... I'm far too guilty, but these are copied, not bought.

I will never, never pay money for something pirated. Free distribution is one thing, making a profit is deplorable.
 

Flivver

Practically Family
Messages
821
Location
New England
As someone who has had two pieces of copywrited writing ripped off, I'm afraid I stand on the side of the copywright owners.

In the first case, a piece of my writing was ripped off without any attribution by a guy who wrote a monthly column on old radios in a nationally published electronics magazine. When I confronted him about it in person at a radio collector's meet, he couldn't understand why I was upset!

In the second instance, a guy writing a book on a popular radio brand wanted to use my copywrighted material on the subject, add his own pictures and call it his book. He *was* willing to credit me for my extensive text, but he was *not* willing to share any royalties on the book. So I refused permission. He then got mad at me and simply paraphrased my text and published the book! The book is now in it's second printing!

So, yeah...I stand with the copywright owners.
 

eightbore

Suspended
Messages
165
Location
North of 60
Squeal?

Never! Let me get this straight....I'm supposed to be thrilled making $500 ratting someone out so a film company can theoretically improve its bottom line and enhance its own economic power to rip off the striking writers on their royalties? Uh huh....right. :eusa_doh: Look, the reality is I go to about 10 movies a year maximum in the theatre...and that's only if I am REALLY interested in a film. Other than that, I wait for it to show up on cable or network television. I'll often buy a pirated film if the random opportunity presents itself and 99.9% of the time it is a movie I wouldn't see normally or already saw in the theatre. Really, pirated films for me just replace (or even compliment in some way) their showings on cable so I am better off as a result of the purchase and the film company or theatres are certainly not worse off. I feel no guilt.
 

Edward

Bartender
Messages
23,698
Location
London, UK
Josephine said:
I truly think that the music/film companies are going way overboard on their rabid witch hunt of what they consider copyright infringement. However, having said that, I also thing that someone who records a movie in the theater KNOWS what they are doing is wrong, and in fact is wrong. So yes, I would (from the ivory tower of my comfy chair in my comfy house), turn them in.

I would on principle, though I'd certainly not turn down the money if I was offered it. I think it's a real shame that folsk have to be offered a "reward" in order to encourage them to "do the right thing," but I wouldn't think twice about taking it myself, I admit, even though it wouldn't be my primary motivation for reporting it.

Flivver said:
He then got mad at me and simply paraphrased my text and published the book! The book is now in it's second printing!

I take it you've pursued action on this basis? It's still potentially a sderious infringement.

Baron Kurtz said:
For the reasons stated (that is, safety), i wouldn't confront a shoplifter. but i would certainly point them out to the security team: Their job is to deal with that. They are trained, i am not. I certainly ain't gonna pretend any macho-ness for myself to "take him down".

Absolutely. I did once take a description and car licence plate number to a supermarket when I saw someone (who'd I'd seen looking shifty inside a few minutes previously) run out with a full basket of goods and jump into a car. But this Jack Straw 'have a go hero' nonsense is for the birds - sooner or later, some innocent person, whether mis interpreted as acting suspiciously when they weren't, or the would-be hero themselves, is gonig to be seriously hurt and idiots like Straw will have to bear some responsibility for that.

As for piracy, i would report it. I have reported the damned chinese gang that sells bootleg DVDs on Walthamstow High Street.

I wonder are they related to the bunch I see in Whitechapel every day.... I see them getting busted on a very regular basis and yet they never seem to disappear. You'd think something effective could be done about them.
 

Flivver

Practically Family
Messages
821
Location
New England
Edward said:
I take it you've pursued action on this basis? It's still potentially a sderious infringement.

I never took action because I figured it would be too much of a hassle...particularly with it being paraphrasing not a drect lift.

And since then, I've gone in with two other people on a book where I *do* get royalties...and I found out how miniscule they are on specialty books like this!
 

Kishtu

Practically Family
Messages
559
Location
Truro, UK
A lot of UK DVDs have a trailer at the beginning now - and I add the caveat that I'm not sure how true this is - saying that bootleggers are directly involved with funding organised crime.

Which for me adds a whole new dimension....

I guess the other thing now is technology is becoming so sophisticated, how can you tell if someone is filming in a cinema?? The big guys are professionals....I have no doubt they have state of the art kit, which is, what, how big?

Sadly because I work in a fairly high profile job in the criminal justice system, I would be very reluctant in my own home area to get involved. Past experience has taught me that the smaller the criminal the more likely the pathetic little attempts at revenge. *Sigh* I only wish I'd wired our side entry gate to the mains when the chappie on our books thought he'd get his own back by wee'ing on it....
 

Martinis at 8

Practically Family
Messages
710
Location
Houston
Would I "squeal"? You're damned right I would! :mad:

I am a strong believer in Article 1, Section 8, paragraph 8 of the U.S. Constitution. To me this is one of the most important, if not the most important writings in the Constitution.

M8
 

scotrace

Head Bartender
Staff member
Messages
14,354
Location
Small Town Ohio, USA
Excellent analysis BK.

I'd not confront someone who was doing something patently illegal, no matter what it was, but I'd alert someone whose job it is to deal with such situations. Stopping someone from bootlegging a movie or swiping some socks is not worth the price of finding a knife in my innards.

Now, a question: If I own a vinyl copy of Song X that I have purchased in a store, I do indeed own the right to personally enjoy that piece of music. Is it OK then, to seek a digital copy of the very same Song X, to re-enable enjoyment of it due the the stranding of the original format? If I've got no turntable, I can no longer enjoy Song X, so can I grab a replacement digital copy, or must I renew my ownership of Song X each time a new delivery format is invented? Must I buy eight copies of Song X in different formats?
 

Edward

Bartender
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23,698
Location
London, UK
scotrace said:
Excellent analysis BK.

I'd not confront someone who was doing something patently illegal, no matter what it was, but I'd alert someone whose job it is to deal with such situations. Stopping someone from bootlegging a movie or swiping some socks is not worth the price of finding a knife in my innards.

This is very true. I feel the same when it comes to those teenage kids that sit and talk all the way through a film in the cinema. I'd love to tell them to shut the hell up, but given the high incidence of gangs within the Asian community in East London, you never know whether you'll find half a dozen of those kids lying in wait for you for "disrespecting" them. Whatever happened to the days when every cinema screen always had at least one staff member present at all times....

Now, a question: If I own a vinyl copy of Song X that I have purchased in a store, I do indeed own the right to personally enjoy that piece of music. Is it OK then, to seek a digital copy of the very same Song X, to re-enable enjoyment of it due the the stranding of the original format? If I've got no turntable, I can no longer enjoy Song X, so can I grab a replacement digital copy, or must I renew my ownership of Song X each time a new delivery format is invented? Must I buy eight copies of Song X in different formats?

AFAIK, there's no reason that you cannot record the song for your own use and enjoyment, however, this would not extend to an infringing download. I agree that in effect it anmounts to the same thing, but an infringing copy is an infringing copy whether or not you actually own the record legitimately. If you want to convert vinyl to mp3 legitimately, you'd have to buy one of those turntables that can plug into your USB port.

Flivver said:
I never took action because I figured it would be too much of a hassle...particularly with it being paraphrasing not a drect lift.

And since then, I've gone in with two other people on a book where I *do* get royalties...and I found out how miniscule they are on specialty books like this!

That's the truth.... it's the same here in academia. :rolleyes:
 

Martinis at 8

Practically Family
Messages
710
Location
Houston
scotrace said:
...I'd not confront someone who was doing something patently illegal, no matter what it was
I chased down a hit & run one afternoon. What makes people different in this regard?

scotrace said:
Now, a question: If I own a vinyl copy of Song X that I have purchased in a store, I do indeed own the right to personally enjoy that piece of music. Is it OK then, to seek a digital copy of the very same Song X, to re-enable enjoyment of it due the the stranding of the original format?
Yes, in your original purchase you are allowed to make personal copies for your own use. But...

No, if a "derivative work" is developed, such as a new release in digital format, you may not bootleg it.

M8
 

LizzieMaine

Bartender
Messages
31,512
Location
Where The Tourists Meet The Sea
Flivver said:
I never took action because I figured it would be too much of a hassle...particularly with it being paraphrasing not a drect lift.

And since then, I've gone in with two other people on a book where I *do* get royalties...and I found out how miniscule they are on specialty books like this!

Welcome to my world. The main reason I no longer add new material to my website is because so much of it has been stolen by "old time radio fans" and used without attribution. I think once one has been personally pirated, one tends to look at the whole matter thru different eyes.
 
S

Samsa

Guest
scotrace said:
Now, a question: If I own a vinyl copy of Song X that I have purchased in a store, I do indeed own the right to personally enjoy that piece of music. Is it OK then, to seek a digital copy of the very same Song X, to re-enable enjoyment of it due the the stranding of the original format? If I've got no turntable, I can no longer enjoy Song X, so can I grab a replacement digital copy, or must I renew my ownership of Song X each time a new delivery format is invented? Must I buy eight copies of Song X in different formats?

No customer "owns" music; we simply have the license to use a particular copy, and I believe to make a reasonable number of copies for personal use. Format changes are just another way for the music companies and creators of the technology to make more money. That, along with any number of other reasons, leads me to thumb my nose at some copyright law. That's not to say that I don't buy music - I do. But I have no problem burning someone else's copy of "A Hard Day's Night." I don't think Paul and Ringo will be starving anytime soon. I am much more inclined to buy music by lesser known artists.

That said, I do dislike "piracy" when that is taken to mean making money off of material that one does not own - e.g. selling bootleg DVDs. But people sharing music? I have no problem with that. I would very much like to see the music industry collapse, as a matter of fact.
 

Flivver

Practically Family
Messages
821
Location
New England
LizzieMaine said:
Welcome to my world. The main reason I no longer add new material to my website is because so much of it has been stolen by "old time radio fans" and used without attribution. I think once one has been personally pirated, one tends to look at the whole matter thru different eyes.

It certainly has made me look at things differently.

Even though the recording companies and movie studios may have a lot of money, they are still putting money up front and taking a risk by creating new recordings. Accordingly, they should be entitled to a profit. That's the basis of our free enterprise system...or at least it used to be.
 

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