American Trad vs. American Trad

[Matt Deckard]

I have noticed that there is a resurgence of the "trad look" in some circles and it is something that I have to admit is not my cup of tea.

It's less of an American traditional look and more of an American 1980's standard. During the time of the suspendered power suited yuppies there were also the homely looking (usually ill fitting) and to me a bit boring.

<-- not yuppies... and actually if you watch the movie their clothes were pretty good, though they are close to the look to which I am reffering.

Tucker Carlson falls in this resurgence of the look catagory... Very 1980's trad/yuppie. Ill fitting though trying to look classic. I applaud the bow tie... I just wish he had a better fit.

I think alot of designers try to pigeoon hole this look as the American trad look. It gets stuck in people heads that this is the American style.

I prefer to think of the clothes James Stewart and Cary Grant wore in the 30's and 40's as American Trad. Not the giant armholed box boddied low button stanced and tight trowsered jobs todays books and stores are trying to say is American Trad.

 

[Vladimir Berkov]

I am not sure I would say the clothing worn by Stewart or Grant is really "American" Trad. They basically wore Saville-Row inspired suits during the 30s and 40s (although Grant's 50s films are another story.)

Before the 1920s basically all suits were sack suits with plain-front trousers. This is essentially the "American Trad" look which exists because this style, which largely died in Britian did not die on American elite college campuses and among many older Americans as well in certain areas of the country. American clothing designers pushed the limits of the British look in the late 30s and 40s and thus it died postwar, leading to a resurgence of the sack suit among everyday Americans. This is sort of the "golden age" of American Trad and the era most modern Trad establishments seek to preserve/emulate like J. Press, Brooks, Andover, etc.

Personally I don't have anything against sack suits PROVIDED they are done right. Watch Fred Astaire in "The Story of Vernon and Irene Castle" for a good example of a sack suit done right. A good sack suit is cut tight in the jacket with narrowish sleeves and trousers. There is nothing inherently ill-fitting about a sack suit despite the unfortunate name.

I would say that the 80s trend towards oversized jackets, low-button stances, huge shoulder pads and the like were not a result of American Trad but rather "modern" designers such as Armani.

 

[Matt Deckard]

I'm just not into people confusing American trad with 80's style or the mod look.

I'll be clearer... I'll drop the 30's 40's idea and say that I think of Cary Grant's Brooks Brothers suits in North by Northwest and Stewart's suits in Vertigo and The Man Who Knew Too Much as American Trad. Distincly American suits.

The ones they wore in the 30's and 40's were more Hollywood to me than Saville Rowe. I still think the best tailors in the Golden era were in Hollywood.

 

[Robert Conway]

I have nothing against bow-ties, but in his case, Tucker may be better off hanging himself with one. They make him look like a little kid. By the way, did anyone see the episode of Crossfire, where John Stuart made minced meat out of him?

During the 1980's I went to high school in Greenwich, Connecticut, also known as Yuppie Central, and every one dressed like that, even many kids. It beat the hell out of grunge or Hip-hop clothing, but the 80's nouveaux riches / jock attitude of everyone left a pretty bad taste in my mouth, which unfortunately triggers flashbacks whenever I encounter that style.

I'm a capitalist at heart, but I prefer old money class and style.


But yes, I agree. The sack suit look is about as American as apple pie, even if it didn't originate here.

Isn't the peaked lapel, two button suit a'la Bogart also an American invention?

 

[herringbonekid]

A good sack suit is cut tight in the jacket with narrowish sleeves and trousers. There is nothing inherently ill-fitting about a sack suit despite the unfortunate name.

if a sack suit can be fitted, then what details actually make it a sack suit ?

 

[herringbonekid]

Matt, aren't you're describing what used to be called 'preppy' ?
basically an 80's ralph lauren version of a 30s ivy league look. it became the yuppy uniform of blue blazer, chinos, pink striped shirt, striped tie and floppy hair. (shudder)

 

[Vladimir Berkov]

if a sack suit can be fitted, then what details actually make it a sack suit ?

The lack of darts in the jacket.

 

[Mycroft]

When I think of American Trad I think only of two places, Brookes Brothers (as menchins above) and Land's End. That was what I see as tradtional American clothing. Preppy, but can be not called preppy if you pull it right. I think that American style after the Golden Era was mix between British style and American Body types and got slopier over time like the floppy hair. Now, the yuppie look is kinda out except for a select few from what I see. Larry King kinda pulls it and some other news casters.

Land's End: http://www.landsend.com/cd/frontdoor/0,,men,00.html?sid=0382107567966176040

 

[Baron Kurtz]

Studying at a university with a large business school, you see an awful lot of the trainee businessmen (leaders of the future ) wearing clothing as described above. Typically ill fitting and of poor fabrics.

Are we talking about sack suits or the miserable interpretation of sack suit we see today? When i think sack suit i think itinerant French onion seller. I love that look. I try to look like this. The original shabby chic:

Thinks: "It is I, LeClerc ..."

bk

 

[Marc Chevalier]

This look is favored by upper middle class technocrats all over the world.

Many of them came to the United States to study for their Masters/Ph.Ds in economics. (Harvard, Wharton, U. of Chicago, etc.) They learned to dress "preppy" and brought the fashion back to their homelands. Polo shirts (with the little "polo player" logo), Polo or Dockers khakis, Bass penny loafers or Sperry topsiders. In Chile, for example, it's practically a uniform. It whispers: "I'm one of life's winners."

Today, upper-middle class neighborhoods in every country look exactly the same: manicured lawns, gated communities, malls, and "boutique" supermarkets. As American as you can get.

 

[Marty M.]

You're sacked.

The lack of darts in the jacket.

You're correct about a lack of darts in definining a sack suit. I would also add a closer shoulder point to point, very soft and rounded shoulder pad, set in lower pockets with flaps, center or hooked center vent and typically in a three button model. Your typical sack suit guy wants to be heard and not seen.

Marty