Gingrich in '08?

[Renderking Fisk]

I almost started to tear up when I read what kamikat wrote that Liberman can’t win because he’s a jew… and lacks “CHARISMA�.

[You made me cry! Happy now! I’m telling the admin and your mother on you!!!]

I don’t want it to be true that he can’t win, you read his speaches and you’ll find that he’s pretty much a “libertarian�, too. I though we were supposed to look beyond creed.

CFR hass unamerican aspects to it, using laws to silence cirtain types of political speech is a violation of the letter AND the spirit of the law… it also caused some aweful side-effects… CFR made the problem worse, not better.

Zell Miller scares you and Hillary is too Conservitive? That goes agaisnt the results of the last campain. Radical Liberalism was handed its hat and cost the democrats more seats. It’s fine if you want to see more canditates that are more liberal then Hillary run… you’ll assure Conservitives more seats. So, please… be my guest.

 

[SappySwami]

I just don't think people need compromise their views from some obligation to vote one way or the other. (Which is why I love instant runoff voting.) I'm actually not a registered democrat. I'm still registered republican from when I was 18 and asked my dad what I should register as, hehe.

The US is a surprisingly conservative country, and it still surprises me. (Probably because I live in Northern California.) Because of this- and the conservative media (yes, I am serious, and it's pretty easy to prove)- the center in this country is on the right side, so that even moderate liberals are seen as wild anarchists. The voice of the left is probably only half as far to one side is the one on the right. Hillary, to me, is part of the problem with the democratic party, which keeps me from registering with it. The party is becoming more pro business, more for deregulation, and isn't pushing for some of the things real liberals want, because they want to keep as many people in the party as they can. Actually, my problem is more with the two party system. In the early part of the century we had a socialist party that got a little more votes than the Greens do now. They got swallowed up into the democrats around the new deal era, though. Once that new deal coalition broke, and especially with the south, it started becoming more conservative to try to gain people back. Now we have third parties trying to be the voice of the left, and the democrats sliding back and forth between center, trying to please everyone. And yeah, no one I vote for ever wins. :cry:

Oh, and the Zell Miller thing was just a joke about that challenge to duel thing.

One last thing I gotta say, I'm feeling provocative today (but it's good, yeah? We've been having good discussions lately.) I think the idea that unlimited campaign spending is the same as freedom of speech, is just another way democracy is subverted, allowing more power to the oligarchians. Fire away! [Ducks into a foxhole.]

 

[kamikat]

I almost started to tear up when I read what kamikat wrote that Liberman can’t win because he’s a jew… and lacks “CHARISMA�.
[You made me cry! Happy now! I’m telling the admin and your mother on you!!!]

.

Sorry, dude, but it's the truth. While I would support him because I agree with you about reading his speeches, but there's a large portion of this country that still uses the line "some of my best friends are...". I have a lt of food allergies and depend on some kosher food products (like potato flour, passover wheatfree baked goods, ect). When I talk to on-line people about finding things in the grocery store's Jewish aisle or local kosher market, they've never seen such a thing. When I tell people that my kids have Rosh Hoshanna and Yom Kippur off, they're baffled because they've never met a Jewish person and are amazed that we have so many in my schol district that the schools closes for the holy days. And then, when you do a google search on Jewish teachings and find that there are still people who teach that the Talmud tells Jews to swindle and kill any non-Jew. It's really scary!
About the charisma thing, ya gotta give me that one. Reading his speeches is one thing, have you listened to them? He puts me to sleep.
kamikat

 

[Renderking Fisk]

Moderates have to reclaim The DNC from the “Neo-libs�.

You can blame Ted Kennedy for inspiring this rant. Yesterday He said the United States doesn’t need two Conservitive parties. His two brothers are waiting for him on the other side of the Pearly Gates… One to wrap him upside the head with a snorkel and the other to give him an angelic wedgie and the eternal version of a purple Nirple. Both were very conservitive Democrats, Jack was even a member of the NRA.

The most vocal part of the Democratic part is the 10% farthest to the left. They don’t speak to vast majority that is found closer to the center.

Most COMON SENSE democrats don’t what the government to take over every aspect of the economy, eliminate the mention of God in the public forum, or believe that a teen-age girls should be able to have abortion on demand with out telling parents… most democrats are AGAINST abortion but want it to remain legal so a woman can make the choice for themselves.

The current crop of candidates the Democratic party doesn’t speak to the main-stream American public… why would Down-town Jack and Jill vote for a candidate like “Global Test� Kerry who’s more interested in what the elite’s in Europe think then what his constituency thinks?

Mainstream Democrats don’t believe in the “Big Brother� approach to government Kerry and Dean were selling. Democrats won’t learn this in time before ’08… they’ll start talking about “The Holy Spirit� and go through the motions of going to church to win over the “evangelical� voters, but that’s a superficial stunt folks will see through.

 

[kamikat]

I never thought I'd say this, but I totally agree with you on your Kennedy rant.


kamikat

 

[Fuente]

JFK "Don't ask what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country"

Q. Teddy, do you think you might run for president in '08

A. I'll cross that bridge when I get to it

Yes, John's political agenda was would be called conservative, cutting taxes building up the military. His biggest blunder was pulling air support for the Cuban invasion. His biggest coup was standing eyeball to eyeball with Kruschev and getting Nikita to blink and pull out the missles from Cuba.

The liberal legacy that is attributed to JFK is actually the results of LBJ's 'Great Society'.

 

[SappySwami]

I get what Ted means, though. Modern democrats aren't the democrats that FDR belonged to, but the Republican party that Eisenhower did.

The reason for this, I think, are those common sense democrats Fisk mentioned. In my opinion, "common sense" democrats are just uneducated ones, that think "In God we trust" was put in place by Gorge Washington or something, and not just another propaganda tactic of the 1950's borne of the Red Scare. As for abortion, that one it touchy. I wont give my opinion on it, but I see why some (actual) liberals wouldn't see anything good about teenage girls having to have permission to get an abortion. The examples are too horrendous, but I'm sure you all can imagine a situation where the father of the baby is in a position of authority. And I wonder how many democrats who aren't for government regulation of the economy have any knowledge of economics. A class in sociology was enough for me to learn that the economy is an amoral entity and needs something to control its flow for it to be ethical.

It might hurt chances of democrats getting elected, but I would rather them not compromise their beliefs just to gain office.

 

[Renderking Fisk]

How is it that with the Republicans winning elections, Democrats and the Liberal Press are demanding that the Bush Administration come “Closer To The Middle�? Can you answer that for me, Sappy?

The current bunch of Democrats are sales people with a product not enough people want to buy. Their product isn’t like Coke versus Pepsi, now it’s like “Salt Water with shards of broken glass� Versus Pepsi. The “message� the far left is selling to moderate democrats and Independent voters is unpalatable. Democrats are LOSING because their “Standards� are alienating the mainstream public.

In my opinion, "common sense" democrats are just uneducated ones…

That’s an elitist comment. You’re saying that if you’re not an absolute liberal then you’re not “educated�? You could understand why some of us “uneducated� people might be offended by that comment, couldn’t you?

I can say the same thing about the “Anybody But Bush� voters. I don’t believe stupid people should vote. But it’s not up to either one of us… and thankfully stupid people are also lazy people who aren’t interested in politics.

It might hurt chances of democrats getting elected, but I would rather them not compromise their beliefs just to gain office.

Like I wrote, these democrats who only speak for the 10% most liberal voters. You can’t win with that mentality that says “Win or lose we’re going to keep our “beliefs�.

And speaking of Beliefs, these current democrats don’t have any… they change with opinion polls and the ones that stick the voters aren’t happy with. This is fine… they’ll keep electing Republicans.

 

[SappySwami]

I apologize for not clarifying that remark about education. What I meant was uneducated about the issues, like not being fully acquainted with the issue of abortion and those other ones I mentioned, and I didn't mean to imply formal education or something like that. Anyone can educate themselves on issues, even if it is becoming harder because newspaper and television news aren't doing their job, but the Internet is invaluable in that regard. I check CNN, BCC, and if I want to know what is going on in the middle east, Aljazeera, then I compare those all to independant media sources to gain perspective. Time consuming, usually, but maybe an alternative to the Sunday paper.

Again, I didn't mean to imply education in the form of school, sorry about that.

Actually I shouldn't even imply that because some democrats don't agree with me that they don't take time to research things. That's rather arrogant, and assumes there aren't other ways of seeing things. I must have been cranky earlier.

 

[Renderking Fisk]

How can democrats say they’re for “The Bill Of Rights�, but are Pro-Gun Control? Nobody has ever explained that to me adequately.

Right or wrong, the Democrats appear to be the party of oppression… the ban on religious references, the aforementioned Gun Control, Political Correctness… racial quotas.

The Republicans are accused of pushing their Religious believes on people, and The Democrats can also be accused of pushing their SECULAR beliefs on people.
Right or worng, the Dems are now viewed as the party of oppression… and they're going to keep alienating their base and get other Republicans Elected.

Gingrich knows this... and he's going to expolit this for his own run in '08 or for whom ever he runs with.

 

[SappySwami]

Actually, quotas have been illegal since the '70s. No one is pushing for those. The gun control thing, for many people, is based on their interpretation of the second amendment. For instance, it says "the people" which, often, is how the states are referred to, not individuals. Also, for the purposes of a militia. So that's how they can justify that. As for religious references (that is, Christian references. I've never heard of One Nation Under Buddha.) I'm very much for, and see no reason we should have the ten commandments (and always the King James version of the most Christian one, not the two more Jewish old testament ones.) in public places, particularly places of government. I'm a Catholic, so it isn't my pushing my secularism on others, but just that I don't see what positive effects it has on people or religion to not have a proper separation.

 

[Renderking Fisk]

Sappy, I didn’t mean you specifically. The problem with many liberals today is that they are inconsistent with some of their beliefs… you can’t say you’re “Pro Choice� and deny someone the right to own a firearm. I’m able to write to you today because I defended my home with a revolver… you’re not going to get me to believe that my Right to own one is due to a misinterpretation of the Second Amendment.

Take away an individual’s right to own a fire arm… how soon will they take a way your right to free speech or your right to “choose�?

Affirmative Action is still enforced in many areas… I believe you do have to meet quota’s to keep the government and special interest groups off your back.

Taking down Biblical references which this country is based on is wrong and is alienating more then half the United States Voting public.

 

[SappySwami]

Oh, yeah I got ya, I was just using personal anecdotes. I actually don't interpret the second amendment that way, I was just saying what argument I often hear from people.

With this country being formed on Christian ideas, that I have no doubt of, the country was steeped in protestantism from the start. But they came to this country to avoid a government that was influenced too much by the church, as well as other things, and so I think the very spirit of Americanism is a separation of powers.

 

[Fuente]

Interesting thread. I am a Jewish Conservative that does not fear the religion of others, as long as that religion does not call for the death of anyone that does not share their beliefs. Zealots of any religion worry me a bit. My interpretation of the Constitution and Bill of Rights is that the founders did not want a State Religion but that all would be welcome in America to follow the precepts of their own religion, in public or privately. I have no problem with the display of The Ten Commandments in Government buildings, no matter whose version, they are a pretty good set of rules to live by. Being a member of the Tribe that was chosen to receive this short list of rules, I do not wish to impose those rules, but don't think anyone is harmed by reading them or just having their presence in a Government building.

back to the original topic... Newt watch out!!! Hillary is trying to move to the right so fast she is in danger of whiplash, no, not the ones she gave to Janet Reno (wink) She is now in favor a a proponent of faith based initiatives, boosting the armed forces, Etc. By the time the next presidential election season begins she will probably be somewhere to the right of Ghengis Khan.

Just my humble opinions,

Rich

 

[SappySwami]

Man, I know. I thought this would happen with the democrats. I think I'm with Ted Kennedy; I'd like an actual liberal party, and not one that tries to be everything to everyone.

 

[Fuente]

If you're with Teddy... I hope it's as his 'designated driver'.

Rich