Tie Experts....Help Me Date & Get info On "Butterfly" Bow Ties?

[dorotheascloset]

I hope its ok for me to ask here, I got this little box with an estate of all women's things & I don't get a whole lot of mens stuff, so I want to be sure of dating & details. Figured there's a better chance here than many with you gentlemen that collect/wear ties (and ladies who know the mens stuff too).

This box has 2 bow ties in it, and some whatnots. No idea whats original to the box, I suspect its the front one.

Both have a design woven into the fabric, the moire one creates the illusion of dots and has metal pieces on back of tie that I assume fold over collar as a stay of sorts. Both have metal slide adjusters. Box....

Close up of ties....

The pictures arent great, I need natural light to get good close ups & its raining. But you get the idea, if I need to provide any other details I can. Then, inside the box there are these things.....similar to cufflinks, but not quite. I have a dress from the 40s with rhinestone buttons with the same backs. There are 3 of each, so I'm not sure if both sets are missing one & he had 2 pairs of each or if they're supposed to be 3 & used for something else? And the other set, like buttons again but linked together, they could go through french cuffs....just cufflinks then, right? And the cotton piece w/ buttons...?

Sorry I'm so daft, I rarely bother with ties as the market isnt great anymore....if I do, its regular ties as I know so very little about bow ties! I hope its ok to ask here. Thanks so much! Ang

 

[dorotheascloset]

Any thoughts? The box looks almost 20s to me....I'd love some input from tie wearers/collectors. Am I not allowed to ask? Ang

 

[Fletch]

This kind of patterned weave is called jacquard. The front tie also shows a moiré effect (aka "watered silk" - it changes appearance with light).

From the box art and the jacquard designs, I'd say they come from the early-mid 1920s. The butterfly tie wasn't popular before the '20s.

The post-mounted items are shirt studs. They go in the buttonholes of the tux shirt front like so:

The strip with buttons is there for times when you might not want to use the studs (say with a double breasted tux where some might be hidden - or if a stud gets lost from the set).

 

[dorotheascloset]

Brilliant! That explains why there are only 3 each of the studs, I imagine this went with a tux he had & he used the stip below the cummerbund. I'm not yet done working w/ the people at this estate....I normally steer clear of mens things because I know so little. If there is a tux from the 20s, in good shape, are people interested in them? Thank you SO much for the information! Ang

 

[Wild Root]

Cool goods there! And if there is any one interested in men's vintage, you'll find them here!!!

If they're tall sizes, I call DIBS! lol

=WR=

 

[Marc Chevalier]

The date? That's easy. The late 1920s.


Relatively wide butterfly bowties were very popular from about 1927 to 1930 or so. (Some were quite a bit wider than yours!) You can see them in late silent and early sound films, such as The Broadway Melody.


.

 

[dorotheascloset]

Thanks ever so! I was leaning 20s from the box, knowing nothing about ties to judge the date based on the tie itself. I appreciate the help! Ang

 

[Wild Root]

Marc is correct... as usual.

You came to the right place to ask questions!

=WR=

 

[CharlieH.]

I never really understood the "butterfly"

So that's why Bates and Horace Hardwicke got in a feud!

(And I 'spose I won't feel guilty about wearing a pre-tied necktie again...)

 

[Orgetorix]

(And I 'spose I won't feel guilty about wearing a pre-tied necktie again...)

No, you should feel guilty. Even better, you should learn to tie a real bowtie so you don't have to feel guilty!

I'm all for vintage style, but just 'cause it's old don't make it right. There are some things (pre-tied bowties, notch-lapel tuxes, matching tie-and-pocket-square sets) that were around in bygone days but shouldn't be worn today.