Benny Holiday
My Mail is Forwarded Here
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- 3,758
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- Sydney Australia
Might as well have been made specifically for you. Top notch jacket!
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Good Wear-abouts
- Thread starter Sloan1874
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sweetfights
My Mail is Forwarded Here
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- 3,239
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- Canada
man oh man!! What a great jacket- CONGRATULATIONS!!
Superfluous
My Mail is Forwarded Here
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- Missing in action
Outstanding!!!
Robbie79
Call Me a Cab
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This is really nice! Congrats!
Very nice jacket!
On a less positive note, i have just asked JC for a refund of my deposit.
After three plus years on the list, and a year and a half of getting my emails ignored i have decided enough is enough.
How long is it going to be until we call this what it is, a scam!
I have reached a point where seeing jackets like this just makes me angry... I can't see myself ever wanting to give JC more of my money and i don't think i would ever get any enjoyment from a jacket he made me.
Hopefully he is honest enough to not ignore my request and he refunds me.
Good luck to whoever stays on, i hope you get something worthwhile in the end.
On a less positive note, i have just asked JC for a refund of my deposit.
After three plus years on the list, and a year and a half of getting my emails ignored i have decided enough is enough.
How long is it going to be until we call this what it is, a scam!
I have reached a point where seeing jackets like this just makes me angry... I can't see myself ever wanting to give JC more of my money and i don't think i would ever get any enjoyment from a jacket he made me.
Hopefully he is honest enough to not ignore my request and he refunds me.
Good luck to whoever stays on, i hope you get something worthwhile in the end.
Robbie79
Call Me a Cab
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I totally agree! I would also try to get the refund after many years of waiting and ignoring your e-mails - ignoring a customer is much worse than just the waiting time IMO. I know it would go too far but I guess from legal point of view he is obligated to refund the deposit to you after setting him a reasonable grace period (when you sent him the deposit he for sure told you that the waiting time for the jacket is about 1 - 1.5 years). I guess he is gentleman enough to refund the money to you. If I was you I would give the money to another company offering jackets at the same quality as GW does - I've recently read a lot of positive things about Norshor and Dave Sheeley (I don't have personal experience with them). Rainbow Country is in the same price range and I can highly recommend them (Single Rider jacket). And of course FW but you know them probably better than I do as you bought your La Brea before I bought my first FW. Anyway, good luck!
Agreed. Absolutely no reason to bang your head against a wall when these two guys do it every bit as good.
LOL...what do you mean how long until? It's how long has it been a scam....
A Gentleman would answer his emails. What he is doing is not very far from a matrix scheme...
Think about it, if he gets 20 deposits a month, that's $4000 dollars, not doing any work.
Add to that the sales jackets he sells on his page, usually between 3 and 5 a month.
All that happens just because people keep reading online that his jackets are amazing and that although he is slow, "he is a Gentleman and you should trust him", and they put a deposit down.
If he was honest he would have stopped taking orders until the queue was clear and then started again, but he is probably using the money from the new deposits to pay for the supply for old orders (if he even still bothers completing orders!) and to live.
This is a scam, and we at TFL are helping him by not calling him out and trying to keep his reputation intact.
Robbie79
Call Me a Cab
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I agree. Then I would set him a reasonable grace period (in written, registered letter - no e-mail) of let's say 2-3 weeks to refund the 200$ plus interest to you since otherwise you would take legal actions - I'm sure he will refund the money to you. I think just one letter would be worth it.
Dr H
Call Me a Cab
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- 2,006
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- Somerset, UK
I requested a refund from John (and put the deposit towards my Monarch repro). There were no issues with refund: prompt and full.
No legal letter was required...
Brettafett
One Too Many
- Messages
- 1,340
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- UK
I have had three GW A-2s, all top notch. Have always found John to be a 'gentleman' and fair. I have not communicated with him for a couple of years, so can't speak about that.
Anyway, what I wanted to add was that as good as John's jackets are, ELC, BK, DD etc and Platon's JA Dubow (as far as A-2s go at least) are really not less 'better' or less 'authentic' at all... All these guys made thier 'copy' off original jackets, based on their expertise and experience. Slight detailing may vary, but they are all authentically detailed, top quality, top materials and top workmanship.
In fact, a BK Dubow 1755 I got to man-handle and try on a few months ago was hands-down the closest thing to a NOS WW2-era A-2 I have ever handled.
ELC's are great, but have become way overpriced for you get.
Platon's Dubow 27798 is incredible value for money. Its a super jacket, easily on par with any GW, ELC, Aero or any other A-2 I have owned, in terms of quality, authenticity, detailing etc... Wait time a few months. Down side is no customisation. Point is... why wait 2 to 3 plus years for a jacket, when you can get a top-tier, original maker jacket for 450 Euros in a few months?
Crazy.
If you are into the finer details, you cannot go wrong with any of the above.
Anyway, what I wanted to add was that as good as John's jackets are, ELC, BK, DD etc and Platon's JA Dubow (as far as A-2s go at least) are really not less 'better' or less 'authentic' at all... All these guys made thier 'copy' off original jackets, based on their expertise and experience. Slight detailing may vary, but they are all authentically detailed, top quality, top materials and top workmanship.
In fact, a BK Dubow 1755 I got to man-handle and try on a few months ago was hands-down the closest thing to a NOS WW2-era A-2 I have ever handled.
ELC's are great, but have become way overpriced for you get.
Platon's Dubow 27798 is incredible value for money. Its a super jacket, easily on par with any GW, ELC, Aero or any other A-2 I have owned, in terms of quality, authenticity, detailing etc... Wait time a few months. Down side is no customisation. Point is... why wait 2 to 3 plus years for a jacket, when you can get a top-tier, original maker jacket for 450 Euros in a few months?
Crazy.
If you are into the finer details, you cannot go wrong with any of the above.
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From my reading on the VLJ, there seem to be have been problems with communications related to Platon. Also, it's Platon, the man who was barred from the VLJ, and ex of BK, the most obnoxious maker this side of LW. I'm not sure I'd want anything to do with him.
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LOL...what do you mean how long until? It's how long has it been a scam....
Yeah. I honestly can't comprehend how is it even possible that this whole GW scandal isn't officially being considered a scam at this point but seeing people just casually chatting about the whole thing like nothing happened makes me wonder if I've either gone completely insane or I'm not getting the whole picture.
'cause all I know is that a whole bunch of people gave this guy a whole bunch of money for a product that has never been delivered and they never heard back from him again.
I mean, it's the quintessential definition of a scam.
I mean, it is at that point that PayPal refunds you. Just sayin'.
ProteinNerd
My Mail is Forwarded Here
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- Sydney
I’m right there with you @Carlos840. It just makes me angry.
The only thing stopping me asking for a refund is I’m assuming he doesn’t read his emails at this point so will you even get the refund?
The only thing stopping me asking for a refund is I’m assuming he doesn’t read his emails at this point so will you even get the refund?
oneterrifichog
Practically Family
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- 867
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- Signal Mountain, TN
Why not give him a phone call? He has another email address I noticed beside the "info" one.
I have tried, but the phone was ever answered.
I have also sent emails to both addresses, both are ignored.
You can't open a paypal claim more than three years after the payment was made unfortunately.
jacketjunkie
Call Me a Cab
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- 2,236
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- Germany
Guess he's no scammer after all.
Seriously through, anyone who works in a field that requires lots of e-Mail communication knows how time-intense answering e-Mails is. And now imagine being a one-man operation and tons of e-mails coming in. If you answer them all, you don't get to leave your desk at all. So you don't answer when you have nothing substantial to reply anyway. Telling 100 people over and over again every few weeks their jacket is still not finished but you are working on it and hopefully will be able to deliver soon? It's not like that is speeding up the process. Is this poor communication? Arguably, yes. Bad customer service? Arguably, yes. Is the behavior rationally understandable? Debatable, but it surely is for me. I'd probably put a disclaimer on my website saying "asking me when your jacket is done won't get it done faster, if you want a refund, let me know unambiguously and irrevocably with no but or anything and you will get your money back" In fact, John should probably do just that. Probably in nicer words though or he'll go down as Stu 2.0
As for the people calling this a scam; scam presupposes the intent to trick someone into giving money and to enrich oneself by that illegally and I don't believe for a second John at any point ever intended to enrich himself on anyone's cost beyond the point of doing business.
Seriously through, anyone who works in a field that requires lots of e-Mail communication knows how time-intense answering e-Mails is. And now imagine being a one-man operation and tons of e-mails coming in. If you answer them all, you don't get to leave your desk at all. So you don't answer when you have nothing substantial to reply anyway. Telling 100 people over and over again every few weeks their jacket is still not finished but you are working on it and hopefully will be able to deliver soon? It's not like that is speeding up the process. Is this poor communication? Arguably, yes. Bad customer service? Arguably, yes. Is the behavior rationally understandable? Debatable, but it surely is for me. I'd probably put a disclaimer on my website saying "asking me when your jacket is done won't get it done faster, if you want a refund, let me know unambiguously and irrevocably with no but or anything and you will get your money back" In fact, John should probably do just that. Probably in nicer words though or he'll go down as Stu 2.0
As for the people calling this a scam; scam presupposes the intent to trick someone into giving money and to enrich oneself by that illegally and I don't believe for a second John at any point ever intended to enrich himself on anyone's cost beyond the point of doing business.
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'As for the people calling this a scam; scam presupposes the intent to trick someone into giving money and to enrich oneself by that illegally and I don't believe for a second John at any point ever intended to enrich himself on anyone's cost beyond the point of doing business'.
Exactly
Exactly
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