LW J24 or RMC J24-L - need thoughts

[AeroFan_07]

^^ Fully agree.

 

[greenc]

If you're looking for a j24 that can be worn fitted why not get an original in steerhide? When broken in they drape like lambskin.

Or, like others have mentioned, the ELMC Roadstar might be an option as well with its relatively thin horsehide.

View attachment 761089 View attachment 761090 View attachment 761091

@ABCD your jacket photos are great, I especially like the first one, which I think is the ELMC Roadstar - it has a nice drape and shows some really good wear. I really would love to own that jacket if I could score a deal on one pre-owned. I'm gonna need to expand my search parameters. I found an older version in size 44 on the Eastman Classifieds section but it obviously won't fit, and the seller wouldn't ship to Canada even if it had.

I'd like to find it in the Walnut color if possible.

I'm generally more partial to horsehide over steer hide as I like the stiffness of the former over the latter - that said, I've seen some beautiful steer hide recently that made me think I should give it more attention. Also, I picked up a Vanson waxed steer hide two years ago that's stiffer than any jacket I've even seen. It's soft to the touch but definitely will hold it's shape and stand up on its own.

Thank you again for the suggestions, I'll take a look, and will of course keep my eyes peeled for the ELMC Roadstar. Enjoy the weekend.

Chris

 

[greenc]

Honestly this game has gotten too expensive.

@Bfd70 This game has gotten entirely too expensive.

I think part of the problem in the States is that with new pieces coming from Japan or Europe to a US retailer the shipping and import fees are so outrageous that it all just gets passed on to the buyers.

I remember once reading an interview with a menswear designer who was asked why his cotton khaki pants were $400, and he said...

"Just to be clear, I'm not earning $400 per pair. It costs the manufacturer $25 per pair to make, then they sell them to me for $50 each. I in turn sell them to a wholesaler for $100 per pair. The wholesaler sells it to a retailer for $200 per pair, and the retailer doubles it again and sells to the consumer for $400. These are actually $25 pants."

 

[greenc]

Thanks - I've foolishley let 3 of these go back into the wild. The second one of which I do really wish I had kept.

And the fact they are now "base price" of $2800 makes me wish I had kept them all the more.

The RMC looks like a very nice jacket too, however I agree it might feel a little light overall next to your current J24. You sound like you could easily find an original here, (being a size 36) - they come up often.

Thank you @AeroFan_07 I appreciate it, I'll start looking around for an original 36 Buco or a Perfecto-style and see what I can find.

Ya'll have all been terrific, thank you. Enjoy the weekend!

 

[ABCD]

I especially like the first one, which I think is the ELMC Roadstar - it has a nice drape and shows some really good wear.

The first one is an original 50s Buco j82

Reading back this thread, I understand that you find the RMC leather too lightweight. In that case I'm not sure the ELMC will please you as its leather is thinner than the RMCs.

Some additional pics of the ELMC

 

[Boulderunner]

This is an excellent discussion. I just so happen to own both the Lost Worlds J24 which I ordered custom from Stu about 1.5 years ago and also a RMC j24L which I got new from Lost and Found in Canada in late 2023 I think. That RMC J24L was hard to find. Anyhow I used to be conflicted on how these jackets are on the surface very similar. The very first question I would ask is if the jacket is intended for motorcycle riding. The Lost Worlds J24 in the 4ounce horse hide is the thickest moto jacket I’ve ever worn. I had Stu build mine without the interlining to make it a little less bulky and not so hot in the summer. It is an awesome jacket that has formed around my body. I won’t ride my motorcycle in anything else. I also got large crown zippers and high are really strong and I trust. The Real McCoy j24 L was off the rack so obviously it fits different than a custom built jacket from Stu. But in general, the real McCoy is a little longer at the waist, and slimmer in the arms . The arms are way, way slimmer than the lost worlds. The leather is thinner obviously. The real McCoy is a beautiful jacket that I have realized is just a great looking jacket but not one I would want to drop my motorcycle on. That doesn’t mean I’m getting rid of it. Like you said the lost worlds, particularly the back is big, a lot of leather, and creates a lot larger, chunkier silhouette compared to the Real McCoy. The lost world makes me look like a big ol’ biker if that makes any sense. The real McCoy makes me look damn nice…..I wear the LW for riding. I wear the RMC when I want to look good.

 

[greenc]

Oh wow, this is quite a post.

Forst of all, your LW looks absolutely the bee‘s knees. What a spectacular testament of Stu’s abilities as a craftsman. I’d love to see some fit-photos of yours.

I don’t think, comparing LW’s hide to the RMC Shinki in a qualitative way is on the road to tranquility.
Stu prides himself on using heavy (‘manly) leather. While I have found that to be wildly exaggerated concerning the jackets I have handled from him, they are certainly robust. I like the horsehide he uses, but it rather gets the visual appeal form being ‘butch’ more than from its subtleness.

That said, my RMC J-24 is a substantial jacket. Not heavy-heavy, but still al lot of jacket for non-leather guys. In terms of weight, it is in the ballpark of my Schott or Lewis Leathers horsehide jackets.
Also, don’t underestimate the extra weight from the mouton collar. Mine is very thick and does add extra heft to the way the jacket feels when grabbed or worn.

Of course, batches always wary, and Shinki is good at creating a huge mystery about them sourcing ‘the best’ leather, so maybe the current run is a bit on the lighter side.
@Kenan showed me his stunning two-tone J-24, and it was what I would consider a pretty lightweight jacket. He owns both versions and confirms that the black J-24 is considerably heavier.

@ABCD let me try his original Buco, and I’d say, RMC is not far off the mark in terms of overall ‘heft’ of the jacket. Of course, the leather itself can hardly be compared at all.

Anyway, I follow that the pattern will not work for your fit preferences. I still wouldn’t discount the potential of a used J-24L. It will be close to your desired fit, and the Shinki I have seen on RMC jackets ages absolutely beautiful.

@Tom71 thanks so much for the kind words and thoughts on my LW, I'm trying to wear it as much as possible to get it soft and creased. It's coming along.

I think you must be right about the RMC J24 jackets being perhaps on the heavier side than the single new piece I encountered. I see photos of forum members wearing them all the time and they look great, and not at all flyaway or unsubstantial. And the creasing and tea-core on some look amazing as well.

My LW shows good creases but it's still quite dark and not showing any of the underlying hide, except on a few of the belt loops and part of the main zip placket. Aside from that it really isn't showing wear beyond creasing and wrinkling.

I saw a photo of the owner of RMC wearing his J24 and it looked terrific - full of creases, spots where the pigment was worn, the hem curling up a bit due to being worn while seated. It looked like a well-loved jacket.

What I've learned from you all - and you're all just terrific, by the way, what a great group - is that my experience with this single RMC J24 is obviously not nearly enough to color my perception of the quality of their hides. Again, I really enjoy my RMC J100 and that leather - while thin - is still stiff and robust in its own way.

I'm gonna keep poking around and will take some time to figure out what jacket comes next - if any. I've got three that I really love so that's probably enough. But then again...

 

[greenc]

This is an excellent discussion. I just so happen to own both the Lost Worlds J24 which I ordered custom from Stu about 1.5 years ago and also a RMC j24L which I got new from Lost and Found in Canada in late 2023 I think. That RMC J24L was hard to find. Anyhow I used to be conflicted on how these jackets are on the surface very similar. The very first question I would ask is if the jacket is intended for motorcycle riding. The Lost Worlds J24 in the 4ounce horse hide is the thickest moto jacket I’ve ever worn. I had Stu build mine without the interlining to make it a little less bulky and not so hot in the summer. It is an awesome jacket that has formed around my body. I won’t ride my motorcycle in anything else. I also got large crown zippers and high are really strong and I trust. The Real McCoy j24 L was off the rack so obviously it fits different than a custom built jacket from Stu. But in general, the real McCoy is a little longer at the waist, and slimmer in the arms . The arms are way, way slimmer than the lost worlds. The leather is thinner obviously. The real McCoy is a beautiful jacket that I have realized is just a great looking jacket but not one I would want to drop my motorcycle on. That doesn’t mean I’m getting rid of it. Like you said the lost worlds, particularly the back is big, a lot of leather, and creates a lot larger, chunkier silhouette compared to the Real McCoy. The lost world makes me look like a big ol’ biker if that makes any sense. The real McCoy makes me look damn nice…..I wear the LW for riding. I wear the RMC when I want to look good.

@Boulderunner this is exactly what I was thinking - the LW makes me feel like I'm wearing a piece of beautiful, yet fully functional technical kit, made to wear while riding. The bonus of course being that it looks great off the bike as well. Every RMC J24 I've seen photos of people wearing has made me want one because it cuts a slimmer silhouette based on the same pattern. The RMC 24L has the action pleat stop 2/3rds of the way down the back, while the LW extends all the way to the bottom. I've never seen myself from the back in the LW but I'm guessing I look pretty big and like I shouldn't be messed with, and then a person would come around front and have a look and immediately think they got the wrong idea about this 56yo guy - he's harmless.

I'm still considering the RMC 24L and could justify it as a completely different jacket, even though it's extremely similar in style. The LW I wear in the winter and seem pretty good with until it dips below zero, and my guess is the RMC would be a beautiful fall and spring jacket or maybe even a summer jacket in the evening for dinner.

Thank you for writing, this was great information. Enjoy the weekend. By the way, are you in Toronto? That's where I live.

 

[greenc]

The first one is an original 50s Buco j82

Reading back this thread, I understand that you find the RMC leather too lightweight. In that case I'm not sure the ELMC will please you as its leather is thinner than the RMCs.

Some additional pics of the ELMC


View attachment 761199

@ABCD the first photo in your previous post - the Buco J82 is a killer piece, wow! I do like the style of the Roadstar and I appreciate you letting me know of the hide compared to the RMC, that's really great information. It looks great on you, by the way. Well done.

 

[Aloysius]

@Aloysius I think you're right, the pattern of the J24 doesn't necessarily lend itself to the examples I sent, which I'm sure is why the people in those photos were wearing more of a Perfecto style - and of course Pharell's Lightening. I think the play will be to keep the LW J24 and then in time augment that with a Perfecto-ish piece when I can find the right fit. Thank you for your thoughts, you're onto something there.

Pharrell is definitely wearing a Lightning there; Goldblum is in the SLP jacket that's a fashion copy of the Lightning; the other guy seems to be in again an interpretation of a Lightning. None of them is in a Perfecto-style jacket.

 

[Bfd70]

Broken in Lw
This leather will never show brown undertones

 

[greenc]

@Bfd70 that LW looks incredible, how long have you had it?

I wear mine a lot, and by that I mean as soon as I'm showered in the morning I put it on and don't take it off all day. I drive in it, work in it, walk around in it, etc. I'm getting 8-10 hours of consistent wear whenever I put it on. The only time I take it off during the day is if I'm going to the gym.

It's creasing up nicely and the hem is beginning to roll up a bit from me wearing it while seated. I slouch in it, lift my arms above my head, I just do everything I can to work the leather in whatever way possible. It really is an incredible jacket and actually very comfortable. I went out of my way to walk in the rain tonight while wearing it.

 

[Bfd70]

Two years old.

 

[Aladeen's magic carpet]

if you're looking for an RMC with thicker leather i'd recommend looking for a J-22, the couple ive handled were incredibly thick hides worthy of moto riding imo

 

[Edward]

This is helpful.

No, the current fit RMC J-24 will look nothing like this. It´s a pretty blousy cut. Even if you try to undersize, it will just look off.
I am somewhat surprised that the LW gives you the desired fit. I have not handled their J-24, but generally, I never felt that they cut their patterns particularly slim fitting.

As to the pictures: If you like the visuals, you can have a look at the Lewis Leather "Lightning". That is what Pharell Williams wears in the third picture. It´s horsehide, and I think it actually fits him (at least I have seen photos of him, wearing the jacket closed...). It´s pretty much a "British 60´s cut`, so trim fitting but otherwise boxy. The jacket is artificially aged, as there is no "teacore" in the original hide (he has quite a few heavily customised Lightnings).

I am not sure about the other photos, other than the jackets are one size too small for my own preferences, but that of course doesn´t go against you liking it.
Goldblum is seen with a lot of St. Laurent stuff, so this may be one of their "moto-inspired" jackets, but I wouldn´t know.

For something just a smidge different than the usual, American styles in a lancer-front bike jacket, the Lightning is an excellent option. Aviakit's second run at a jacket of this variety. The first was the Bronx in 1956; the Lightning came along in 58. The Bronx owes more direct design influences to its American inspirations - the front half belt, the effectively a D pocket layout without the external D. The Lightning is a more streamlined, more distinct design imo. The biggest functional difference was the introduction of the side-buckles that then became the standard right across the Lewis range. A more elegant solution than the leather-covered front buckle on the Bronx to the same problem: how to stop it scratching the tank when the rider is crouched down low over it, as in a racing position.

FWIW, another option there is the Goldtop range. Goldtop was a competitor brand to Lewis and the rest of them back in the day that has been revived in recent times. There are a couple of designs they do (the 617 in particular) that would be in that sort of general vein. Produced outside Europe with the retail price being somewhere between a third and a half of the retail on the Lewis, though a much better jacket than the price would suggest (the ones I have seen are, I would say, one a par with US-made Schotts). Excellent choice if you're after a jacket to actually ride in, given they have that rare combination of older design but with the pockets for shoulder / elbow / back D30 armour pads already in place.

 

[AeroFan_07]

Broken in Lw
This leather will never show brown undertones
View attachment 761285

Correct. Nice LW's there.

Their HH is dyed-through as I understand it.

 

[greenc]

Correct. Nice LW's there.

Their HH is dyed-through as I understand it.

@AeroFan_07 thanks for the information, I appreciate the response.

How is LW horsehide dyed all the way through? Do you know the process for that? It's my understanding from watching a video by David Himel on the Shinki hides he uses that during tanning the leather turns brown and then the top coat is applied so that when the leather wears the brown shows through, a la tea-core.

I wonder if during tanning at Shinki the leather can be dyed through as well if a client specifies it.

 

[ABCD]

@AeroFan_07 thanks for the information, I appreciate the response.

How is LW horsehide dyed all the way through? Do you know the process for that? It's my understanding from watching a video by David Himel on the Shinki hides he uses that during tanning the leather turns brown and then the top coat is applied so that when the leather wears the brown shows through, a la tea-core.

I wonder if during tanning at Shinki the leather can be dyed through as well if a client specifies it.

Shinki is vegetable tanned (brown core), LW hides are chrome tanned (gray with a faintly bluish tint core).

 

[greenc]

Shinki is vegetable tanned (brown core), LW hides are chrome tanned (gray with a faintly bluish tint core).

Oh thanks @ABCD that makes sense. My guess is that chrome tanned hides are more robust than vegetable tanned pieces, is that right? LW stresses that their jackets should be worn in rain, snow, blazing sunlight, etc - that the hides will only get better with age. Can this same amount of wear be expected out of a veg-tanned version?

 

[ABCD]

My guess is that chrome tanned hides are more robust than vegetable tanned pieces, is that right?

It depends on how you define robust But yeah, in general vegetable tanned leather soaks up water like a sponge, especially if it doesn't have a topcoat (=full aniline), plus it's UV sensitive whereas chrome tanned leather is water repellent or resistant and less affected by sunlight.