Johnson Leather Jacket

[X83]

It might be a hide that only existed in a small batch, like the Horween shrunken horse that Canuck and I used a couple of years ago.

They did say they might order more phantom I’m sure if somone asks for it the

Is that the Del-66? I was strongly considering ordering a Del-66 in Phantom, but looks like you beat me to it! It's ok, I can go with steerhide and save some skrilla

i got the the del 66 in moss rough out I think that jacket looks great in any leather

 

[Leathergato]

Is that the Del-66? I was strongly considering ordering a Del-66 in Phantom, but looks like you beat me to it! It's ok, I can go with steerhide and save some skrilla

Hi. It’s not the Del-66. I asked them to use the same sizing pattern as my Trocadero. But they added the stitching at the pockets and hem, snap button cuffs on the sleeves, shoulder gussets, and buckle type side adjusters instead of cinchers. So I guess it is custom. X83 was saying they may still be able to get more of the Phantom so it may be worth asking JL for that.

 

[Biff42]

Im heading to SF next week I'm hoping to stop by the shop.

 

[Aloysius]

Im heading to SF next week I'm hoping to stop by the shop.

Call ahead of time for an even better experience.

 

[ProfG]

X-post from WJAYWT:

The fit on this JL is really good and it has broken in very easily. I might have been able to go a little smaller in the shoulders, but it is a good mix of slim fitting a full mobility. It’s not the most exciting jacket to look at, but it feels good to wear and is just so easy to throw over nearly anything.

View attachment 376472

Which pants are those? I love the cut...

 

[Pandemic]

Which pants are those? I love the cut...

Going back 5yrs into my memory, but I think they were from Ciano Farmer

 

[Bozbag]

Hi All,

I wanted to make a post in case anyone else has been curious about the heavy 5oz goatskin used on some JL jackets around 2021/2022 in this thread.

Going off of info this thread, I've been doing some detective work to see whether that particular tannery or leather can be sourced, and I think I found it.

The tannery couldn't confirm if their product was exact leather used on those earlier Johnson jackets. But based on the description, it sounds like it could be a very close match: 5 oz, veg-tanned, milled, aniline-dyed goat.

If people are interested, I can make a more detailed post, let me know.

 

[Peacoat]

Hi All,

I wanted to make a post in case anyone else has been curious about the heavy 5oz goatskin used on some JL jackets around 2021/2022 in this thread.

Going off of info this thread, I've been doing some detective work to see whether that particular tannery or leather can be sourced, and I think I found it.

The tannery couldn't confirm if their product was exact leather used on those earlier Johnson jackets. But based on the description, it sounds like it could be a very close match: 5 oz, veg-tanned, milled, aniline-dyed goat.

If people are interested, I can make a more detailed post, let me know.

Yes, I would like to know the origin of it. Please do.

 

[jacketjunkie]

Hi All,

I wanted to make a post in case anyone else has been curious about the heavy 5oz goatskin used on some JL jackets around 2021/2022 in this thread.

Going off of info this thread, I've been doing some detective work to see whether that particular tannery or leather can be sourced, and I think I found it.

The tannery couldn't confirm if their product was exact leather used on those earlier Johnson jackets. But based on the description, it sounds like it could be a very close match: 5 oz, veg-tanned, milled, aniline-dyed goat.

If people are interested, I can make a more detailed post, let me know.

I mean, why keep us on the edge? Just spill it out..

By which I mean to say, I am fairly sure people are interested. I do own a JL 5 oz goatskin jacket and it is the most beautiful thing..

 

[Bozbag]

Alright -- you guys asked for this lol.

TLDR: The tannery is called Pergamena, located in Hudson Valley NY. They have 3 and 4oz aniline dyed, milled, veg tanned goat for sale currently on their site currently under their 'Hudson Goat'.

https://www.pergamena.net/

They also seem to have a one-off black goat on sale on their page, with options for finishing:
https://www.pergamena.net/leather-shop/c8g5idy85ctwno2vv4zinx2yrk4oxa


Detailed follow-up:
After perusing this thread I reached out to JL recently to see if they had any 5oz goat in stock. They said they didn't, so I went through the thread again to see if I can find the tannery and see if I can source it myself. I reached out to Pergamena, and asked whether they may have produced or supplied anything similar to the 5 oz goatskin used on those jackets.

They weren’t able to confirm whether they were the source for the Johnson Leather hides, so I don’t want to present this as a confirmed match. However, they did confirm something very promising: they have made and still do make aniline-dyed, milled, vegetable-tanned goat leather in 5 oz thickness. So from my sleuthing in this thread and descriptions of leather by members that possess this 5oz goat, I feel pretty confident that I have a match.

A few key details from my Pergamena inquiry:

They currently have some undyed 5 oz goat leather in inventory. They do aniline drum dyeing, though their dye formulas are normally designed for 3 oz goat, so colors on 5 oz goat may vary. Since there is more leather thickness but the same surface area, they said the color could potentially come out richer or darker, but they do not dye 5 oz goat often enough to say for sure.

On hide size, they said the 5 oz hides tend to be the larger hides, usually around 7–8 square feet. A hide that size might yield roughly a 20" x 30" usable panel. They also said that if a specific panel size is needed, they can sort through what they have available and see what is possible.

On thickness, they clarified that the 5 oz hides are not shrunk down to create the weight. The hides are sorted by thickness from the batch. They sort goat into 3 oz, 4 oz, and 5 oz categories, and the 5 oz hides are simply the thicker ones.

On finishing, there are a few options. Hot rolling is available, but it is not required and would cause the hides to lose a little thickness. Pergamena can do the following in-house:

• No additional finishing
• Milling only
• Milling, then hot rolling
• Milling, hot rolling, then milling again

They said all of those are viable options. Each process adds about $5 per hide, and the earlier price they quoted included one round of milling.

The minimum order is still the main hurdle. For a dyed production run, they quoted a minimum of about 10–12 hides, or roughly 70 square feet minimum, based on total hide weight. That would be around $1,500 for the minimum order. The price per hide decreases as the order size increases.

For scale, they said their largest possible load is about 300 hides, based on weight rather than hide count or square footage, and that a full load would be around $30,000, which works out to roughly a 50% reduction in price per hide compared with the smaller minimum order.

Turnaround depends on whether they already have the undyed 5 oz hides in inventory:

• If the undyed 5 oz hides are already in inventory: about 2–3 weeks
• If it requires a full load or more than they currently have available: about 4–6+ weeks

They can also send samples. Their samples are usually 3 oz, but they said they could send a 5 oz undyed sample along with dyed 3–4 oz samples. They also have a color palette, though not every color is available as a physical sample. Custom colors may be possible for an additional fee.

They are also going to check whether they have any examples of dyed 5 oz goat available, so I may have more information soon, as I asked for some photos.

At this point, I’d still say this is not confirmed as the exact original Johnson Leather 5oz goatskin. But it does seem like a very real lead for a 5 oz, milled, aniline-dyed, veg-tanned goatskin from a U.S. tannery.

I guess this is the point where I defer to the more experienced members of this form, as I never handled the original leather nor have any experience in procuring particular leather for jackets.

Anyone who has experience with supplying their own leather -- can you give practical guidance on usable panel size for a jacket pattern? How much yield does JL expect per hide? Also, how do the quoted prices above compare with Horween or Shinki or other tanneries?

So yeah -- not sure what the next step is. If there is enough interest, it may make sense to do a group buy, or reach out to JL and ask them to source it directly -- maybe they get a better price than d2c.


@CanuckPanda @jacketjunkie and anyone else who may have a 5oz jacket, if you'd be amenable to give an update on your thoughts on your jackets a few years in, I think it would be helpful. In any case, maybe sending the tannery pics of existing jackets could help with grain matching and whatnot.

 

[ton312]

Alright -- you guys asked for this lol.

TLDR: The tannery is called Pergamena, located in Hudson Valley NY. They have 3 and 4oz aniline dyed, milled, veg tanned goat for sale currently on their site currently under their 'Hudson Goat'.

https://www.pergamena.net/

They also seem to have a one-off black goat on sale on their page, with options for finishing:
https://www.pergamena.net/leather-shop/c8g5idy85ctwno2vv4zinx2yrk4oxa


Detailed follow-up:
After perusing this thread I reached out to JL recently to see if they had any 5oz goat in stock. They said they didn't, so I went through the thread again to see if I can find the tannery and see if I can source it myself. I reached out to Pergamena, and asked whether they may have produced or supplied anything similar to the 5 oz goatskin used on those jackets.

They weren’t able to confirm whether they were the source for the Johnson Leather hides, so I don’t want to present this as a confirmed match. However, they did confirm something very promising: they have made and still do make aniline-dyed, milled, vegetable-tanned goat leather in 5 oz thickness. So from my sleuthing in this thread and descriptions of leather by members that possess this 5oz goat, I feel pretty confident that I have a match.

A few key details from my Pergamena inquiry:

They currently have some undyed 5 oz goat leather in inventory. They do aniline drum dyeing, though their dye formulas are normally designed for 3 oz goat, so colors on 5 oz goat may vary. Since there is more leather thickness but the same surface area, they said the color could potentially come out richer or darker, but they do not dye 5 oz goat often enough to say for sure.

On hide size, they said the 5 oz hides tend to be the larger hides, usually around 7–8 square feet. A hide that size might yield roughly a 20" x 30" usable panel. They also said that if a specific panel size is needed, they can sort through what they have available and see what is possible.

On thickness, they clarified that the 5 oz hides are not shrunk down to create the weight. The hides are sorted by thickness from the batch. They sort goat into 3 oz, 4 oz, and 5 oz categories, and the 5 oz hides are simply the thicker ones.

On finishing, there are a few options. Hot rolling is available, but it is not required and would cause the hides to lose a little thickness. Pergamena can do the following in-house:

• No additional finishing
• Milling only
• Milling, then hot rolling
• Milling, hot rolling, then milling again

They said all of those are viable options. Each process adds about $5 per hide, and the earlier price they quoted included one round of milling.

The minimum order is still the main hurdle. For a dyed production run, they quoted a minimum of about 10–12 hides, or roughly 70 square feet minimum, based on total hide weight. That would be around $1,500 for the minimum order. The price per hide decreases as the order size increases.

For scale, they said their largest possible load is about 300 hides, based on weight rather than hide count or square footage, and that a full load would be around $30,000, which works out to roughly a 50% reduction in price per hide compared with the smaller minimum order.

Turnaround depends on whether they already have the undyed 5 oz hides in inventory:

• If the undyed 5 oz hides are already in inventory: about 2–3 weeks
• If it requires a full load or more than they currently have available: about 4–6+ weeks

They can also send samples. Their samples are usually 3 oz, but they said they could send a 5 oz undyed sample along with dyed 3–4 oz samples. They also have a color palette, though not every color is available as a physical sample. Custom colors may be possible for an additional fee.

They are also going to check whether they have any examples of dyed 5 oz goat available, so I may have more information soon, as I asked for some photos.

At this point, I’d still say this is not confirmed as the exact original Johnson Leather 5oz goatskin. But it does seem like a very real lead for a 5 oz, milled, aniline-dyed, veg-tanned goatskin from a U.S. tannery.

I guess this is the point where I defer to the more experienced members of this form, as I never handled the original leather nor have any experience in procuring particular leather for jackets.

Anyone who has experience with supplying their own leather -- can you give practical guidance on usable panel size for a jacket pattern? How much yield does JL expect per hide? Also, how do the quoted prices above compare with Horween or Shinki or other tanneries?

So yeah -- not sure what the next step is. If there is enough interest, it may make sense to do a group buy, or reach out to JL and ask them to source it directly -- maybe they get a better price than d2c.


@CanuckPanda @jacketjunkie and anyone else who may have a 5oz jacket, if you'd be amenable to give an update on your thoughts on your jackets a few years in, I think it would be helpful. In any case, maybe sending the tannery pics of existing jackets could help with grain matching and whatnot.

5oz goat is going to be something awful IMO. For that matter any 5 oz hide will make for a truly miserable jacket to wear. I have a Golden Bear jacket that’s easily north of 3.5 oz and it’s as thick as I would want to go. It feels like comp weight cow from Vanson and has lost the drape that goat typically affords. I would question the sensibility of such a thing as it will remove all the qualities that make goat attractive. Hopefully these pics illustrate my point and why 3.5oz goat is more than enough!

 

[ProfG]

Would be very interested in ordering a goat jacket. Not particularly invested in 5oz, 3.5 oz is fine with me.

Bozbag: did JL say that they don't have any goat at the moment, or only that they don't have 5oz goat?

 

[gainghiskhan]

Earlier this year, when I asked about heavy goat leather as an option, they replied that it was no longer produced by the tannery.

Would be very interested in ordering a goat jacket. Not particularly invested in 5oz, 3.5 oz is fine with me.

Bozbag: did JL say that they don't have any goat at the moment, or only that they don't have 5oz goat?

 

[Bozbag]

@ProfG From my email with Alan I can only confirm they have 3oz goatskin in black. I'd call and ask, they're probably still busy from the weekend sale to answer emails.

@ton312 yes, but the novelty though! To your point, what do you think would be the optimal thickness of goat to emphasize it's qualities?

Incidentally, i'll posit my question to JL to the forum at large:
I want a 3-season everyday kind of leather jacket for SoCal weather. Open to any weight or leather, as long as it's easy to wear, has good drape and hand. Let me know your recommendations or suggestions.

Also, anyone have any experience with the Trocadero?

 

[jacketjunkie]

@ProfG From my email with Alan I can only confirm they have 3oz goatskin in black. I'd call and ask, they're probably still busy from the weekend sale to answer emails.

@ton312 yes, but the novelty though! To your point, what do you think would be the optimal thickness of goat to emphasize it's qualities?

Incidentally, i'll posit my question to JL to the forum at large:
I want a 3-season everyday kind of leather jacket for SoCal weather. Open to any weight or leather, as long as it's easy to wear, has good drape and hand. Let me know your recommendations or suggestions.

Also, anyone have any experience with the Trocadero?

Leather, regardless of thickness, has very little insulating qualities. The lining decides for the most part how warm thr jacket will be. Thickness of hide will mostly be decisive for the question how much extra weight you carry on you when the temperatures go up. If you tend to sweat easy and much, you might want to keep the weight of the jacket down.

I personally like the look of an aged thick leather jacket much better than the one of jackets made from thinner hides, there is little rational reasoning for it, it is mostly aesthetics. So if I was forced to live in SoCal climate, I would probably pick a thicker leather regardless and go unlined to make it more versatile..

JL has a beautiful bison leather at different thicknesses in a bunch of nice colors. I loved the redwood color sample they sent me once. Very supple and comfy leather, even at thicker hides.

 

[red devil]

Even skived down, bison leather makes for a substantial jacket.

@Bozbag , You will generally find that supplying your own leather for a jacket is more expensive overall. It is nice to have the option to buy as little as 70 sq. ft., which would be roughly enough for a jacket and a half, or a long coat, as far as I know. A lot of tanneries have much higher minimums.
I have supplied leather on a few occasions. It is generally only worth it if there is a specific leather that you want. I would add that it takes time to know what you really want.

 

[Bozbag]

@jacketjunkie i'll check out the bison when i visit the shop. I've never actually seen or felt bison leather, but i've read good things about it here on the forum. I'm curious if how similar Buffalo / Cow / Bison leather is overall.

One thing I will say about SoCal weather is there are a multitude of microclimates -- there can be a huge variation in temps living close to the water versus more inland. I find mornings and evenings pretty accommodating for leather, temperature-wise.

@red devil While the temptation is strong, I don't I'm brave (or rich enough) to do a custom jacket and custom leather as a blind buy. I just enjoyed the detective work and learning more about the hobby.

I think the tannery is more focused on producing specialized leather for crafts rather than garments, but if I ever win the lottery I'd love to give it a try.

If someone else decides to take the plunge, please share your experience.

 

[codex]

Regius uses Pergamena goat and gives it his highest praise. It's definitely some nice leather.

 

[red devil]

@jacketjunkie i'll check out the bison when i visit the shop. I've never actually seen or felt bison leather, but i've read good things about it here on the forum. I'm curious if how similar Buffalo / Cow / Bison leather is overall.

One thing I will say about SoCal weather is there are a multitude of microclimates -- there can be a huge variation in temps living close to the water versus more inland. I find mornings and evenings pretty accommodating for leather, temperature-wise.

@red devil While the temptation is strong, I don't I'm brave (or rich enough) to do a custom jacket and custom leather as a blind buy. I just enjoyed the detective work and learning more about the hobby.

I think the tannery is more focused on producing specialized leather for crafts rather than garments, but if I ever win the lottery I'd love to give it a try.

If someone else decides to take the plunge, please share your experience.

That's the reason I said it takes time to know what you want

 

[ProfG]

Came across this wild boar leather used for boots and bags:

Wild Boar Leather

Bad animals, great leather. Bad Leather Goods creates the best darn leather backpacks, messenger bags, and leather accessories.

badleathergoods.com

Would be amazing to get a jacket in this. Apparently, you can buy the leather wholesale (scroll down a bit):

Fine Leathers - Gallun Leathers

Gallun Leathers develops Bespoke crafted leathers designed with the end manufacturer’s needs in mind. Viking Calf Viking Calf by Gallun Leathers is designed for footwear & leather goods. VIEW August Calf August Calf by Gallun Leathers is designed for footwear & leather goods. VIEW BBG “Baseball...

gallunleathers.com

Anyone interested?