Digitizing alternatives

dhermann1 · Dec 15, 2009

I've been kicking this around for a long time now. Does anyone have experience with the new generation of turntables that have a direct link to your computer? I have a pile of vinyl albums, plus 78's that I'd like to record. I have a nice old analog Thorens turntable that I've hardly ever used. I'm wondering whether the digital turntable might be a lot easier to use, especially since a couple of them also seem to have cassete tape slots, so you can digitize your old cassettes as well. I know the software exists to do this without the purpose built turntable, but how easy is the whole process, in comparison?

Bassman · Dec 16, 2009

Hi dh1,
I have an ION usb turntable that is used with various software (it comes with Audacity which is available for free on the interweb) and it's very easy to install and use.
After digitizing LP's (even 78's, although the stylus really isn't the proper one for those), edit out the silent sections, separate the songs, title them and transfer them (as WAV files) to your computer (iTunes application for me) and convert them to any format you want (AAC, MP3, etc).
The editing/titling part is a little time consuming, but I've gotten great results.

The deal with digitizing 78's is, you play them on the turntable at either
33 1/3 or 45 rpm (78 rpm not offered) and then convert the speed to 78 rpm via the software (very easy too).

No attached cassette machine but you can hook up your current cassette machine to the computer (line-in input on back of PC) and use the same software to digitize, separate songs, title them and import them to the PC the same way as the LP's.
Hope that was helpful.

PS- Come to think of it...you may also be able to hook up your Thorens (with some RCA to stereo mini plug cables from Best Buy/Radio Shack) the same as hooking up the cassette machine. Sometimes the cartridges on older turntables may be ceramic rather than magnetic and it may become more complicated.

Flivver · Dec 16, 2009

Thanks for that great outline on operating the Ion, Bassman. I was given one of these recently but haven't had a chance to use it yet.

Regarding the line-in connection on a computer, do you know if the software will correct for (amplify) a low level output from a magnetic phono cartridge?

I'm under the impression that most line-in jacks on computers are set up for high-level signals of the type put out by tuners, tape decks or ceramic cartridges. If that's true, the output of a magnetic cartridge would have to go through a pre-amp to bring the signal level up to what's required at the line-in jack of the computer.

Bassman · Dec 16, 2009

Flivver-
I've only hooked up the ION and my cassette deck (not at the same time) so I've never run across that particular scenario, but both the PC's sound settings and the Audacity software offer a line-in level/volume adjustment (increase/decrease).
You'd just have to experiment and see if you get a usable signal.
Hope it works for you!

Flivver · Dec 16, 2009

If the software has a line-in level adjustment, it should work.

Thank you!

Orion · Dec 16, 2009

Those USB turntables are decent and they make a pretty quick job of digitizing old albums. However, if you are digitizing older (pre-1955) albums, you may have more than just the 33-to-78 speed issue to deal with. This mostly just applies to that situation:

If you're using the line-in on your computer and no amplifier, for the best result you will want to try to approximate the correct equalization curve in software. Prior to 1955, there was no standard RIAA curve. For that matter, disks weren't all recorded at exactly 78rpm either; they may sound best somewhere between 70-85 rpm, but that's your personal judgment.

This helpful link gives you approximate curves you could apply to the file:
http://www.shellac.org/wams/wequal.html

Basically, the Turnover column is the frequency at which you need to start boosting the bass and the Rolloff column is the amount (in decibels) you need to dampen the trebel frequencies above 10Khz.

As long as you record the input signal with room to spare (say, 80% max volume), you'll have little problem applying equalization in post processing, with no distortion. Some software will even automate this stuff for you.

Also remember, if you are recording at 33rpm and then speeding up the recording to 78rpm, the pitch will change! Don't apply any curve adjustments until AFTER you've changed the speed to 78rpm! For this same reason, an external amplifier placed between the record player and the computer could produce bizarre results in this instance.

If the line-in on the computer is too low, most computers also have a mike-in that can boost the input signal, which may/may not help.

Finally, Audacity, which Bassman mentioned, is a wonderful piece of free audio recording/processing software.

Vornholt · Dec 17, 2009

For best results, you'll need to amplify the output from the turntable. On a standard computer audio card, the on-board amps are not enough to get a decent signal without distortion.

It's probably overboard for this application, I use a MOTU Firewire audio interface between any equipment and the PC.

Dixon Cannon · Dec 17, 2009

Yes, I have the ION USB Turntable and just love it. When the mood strikes me and I remember a particular tune from past, I just throw it on the turntable and download it via Audacity and add it to my playlist. I can then download again onto CD if I like. It's a bloody miracle.

My next purchase is the Cassette USB unit to pull some of the great stuff I've recorded off the radio for years!

-dixon cannon

Dixon Cannon · Dec 17, 2009

Bassman....

"No attached cassette machine but you can hook up your current cassette machine to the computer (line-in input on back of PC) and use the same software to digitize, separate songs, title them and import them to the PC the same way as the LP's.
Hope that was helpful."

Are you saying that it IS possible to to just plug in the cassette player to the PC and actually record directly (download) into the computer? That would be fantastic! Anything else in the procedure that is relevent? I'd like to try that!

-dixon cannon

Bassman · Dec 17, 2009

Yes indeedy DC! Before I had the ION, I hooked up my cassette deck with (if I remember correctly) an RCA to stereo mini plug "Y" connector (2 female RCA's to 1 male stereo mini plug) from Radio Shack, plugged that into the line-in input on the PC and did some test records to adjust the input level with Audacity until I got a clean recorded signal.
Editing and titling and exporting and file conversion was the same for both cassette and LP.
Definately give it a try.
I'll try to answer any other questions you may have, but it's pretty intuative.
Good luck!

Talbot · Dec 18, 2009

I use a standard turntable with an in-line amp to bring the signal level up. It is a small battery powered unit that feeds to the 'line in' on my PC. I use a software package called Audio Cleaning Lab 12.

Its a fairly straightforward package to learn, but I have not mastered all of the feautures yet. Basically its a three step process - Record - Clean - Burn.

In the recording phase volume levels etc can be set and track markers are inserted either manually or automatically. Once recorded you can edit the sound wave file so bits can be removed or inserted

The cleaning phase can be used to remove hiss, crackles etc, and you can burn to all popular formats.

Talbot

Flivver · Dec 18, 2009

Orion said:
Those USB turntables are decent and they make a pretty quick job of digitizing old albums. However, if you are digitizing older (pre-1955) albums, you may have more than just the 33-to-78 speed issue to deal with. This mostly just applies to that situation:

If you're using the line-in on your computer and no amplifier, for the best result you will want to try to approximate the correct equalization curve in software. Prior to 1955, there was no standard RIAA curve. For that matter, disks weren't all recorded at exactly 78rpm either; they may sound best somewhere between 70-85 rpm, but that's your personal judgment.

This helpful link gives you approximate curves you could apply to the file:
http://www.shellac.org/wams/wequal.html

Basically, the Turnover column is the frequency at which you need to start boosting the bass and the Rolloff column is the amount (in decibels) you need to dampen the trebel frequencies above 10Khz.

As long as you record the input signal with room to spare (say, 80% max volume), you'll have little problem applying equalization in post processing, with no distortion. Some software will even automate this stuff for you.

Also remember, if you are recording at 33rpm and then speeding up the recording to 78rpm, the pitch will change! Don't apply any curve adjustments until AFTER you've changed the speed to 78rpm! For this same reason, an external amplifier placed between the record player and the computer could produce bizarre results in this instance.

If the line-in on the computer is too low, most computers also have a mike-in that can boost the input signal, which may/may not help.

Finally, Audacity, which Bassman mentioned, is a wonderful piece of free audio recording/processing software.

This is great information, Orion.

I had forgotten to consider the importance of using correct equalization when digitizing pre-1955 records. Since I have several mono preamps with adjustable turnover and rolloff, I think the best solution for me will be to use my regular turntable with propper 78 or LP cartridge, fed thru a mono preamp to the line-in jack on my computer.

I'll save the Ion for digitizing the newer stuff.

skyvue · Dec 18, 2009

Do any of you audio experts have the capability and expertise to digitize and, most importantly, clean up one of those do-it-yourself records from the Fifties?

My mom recorded for my dad one back in the day, and it plays on my old classroom turntable, but the hiss and scratches are so pervasive, you can't make out what she's saying.

Mom's in fulltime care with Alzheimer's now, so she's virtually lost to us and I can't ask her about it. But I'd love to somehow get a listenable digital file of this record (I'd even be willing to pay a bit for it, though my budget for this project is limited).

Anyone able and/or willing to undertake this, or have a suggestion where I might turn?

Bassman · Dec 18, 2009

skyvue,
First- I am no audio expert.
Second- the Audacity software offers some noise canceling options that work to varying degrees.
I'd be happy to try something for you on my ION turntable (for free) but I couldn't guarantee what the outcome would be.

skyvue · Dec 18, 2009

I'm game, Bassman -- I'll send you a PM.

Vornholt · Dec 19, 2009

I run a small recording operation for spoken word and audio drama, and I use some editor plugins that clean things up unbelievably well. Let me know how your first try goes.

skyvue · Dec 19, 2009

Will do, Vornholt -- thanks very much.

Digitizing alternatives

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