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Welcome, Bornabulldog. A thoughtful and gracious opening post, I look forward to hearing more and seeing photos of you in your hats.
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All You Need to Know About Hat Etiquette
- Thread starter Canadave
- Start date
BR Gordon
One Too Many
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I agree with Alan, a very nice post.
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Blackthorn
I'll Lock Up
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:arated:
Espee
Practically Family
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- 547
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- southern California
From a 1951 "Baby Snooks" radio episode (making plans to have the boss over for dinner):
DADDY: I'm just glad your Uncle Louie isn't coming to dinner-- his table manners are atrocious!
SNOOKS: But Uncle Louie always tips his hat when ya pass him the potaytas...
DADDY: I'm just glad your Uncle Louie isn't coming to dinner-- his table manners are atrocious!
SNOOKS: But Uncle Louie always tips his hat when ya pass him the potaytas...
plain old dave
A-List Customer
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- 412
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- East TN
Remove at following:
1) In another person's dwelling
2) Dining establishment or medical facility.
3) House of worship.
4) Anywhere a hat check is available.
5) At work.
6) Inside ANY building onboard a military facility.
2) and 6) are related; I am a US Navy Reservist, and naval tradition requires removal of covers for all hands not in a duty status on the mess decks. You see, back in the days of wooden ships and iron men, the mess decks were the mass casualty treatment areas; Sailors remove their covers on the mess decks as a sign of respect for those that passed on the mess decks as a result of battle.
Retain at following:
1) Out of doors, with exception of funeral services.
2) Public transportation, with exception of TSA screenings.
3) Anywhere where removal is impractical, such as grocery stores or malls.
1) In another person's dwelling
2) Dining establishment or medical facility.
3) House of worship.
4) Anywhere a hat check is available.
5) At work.
6) Inside ANY building onboard a military facility.
2) and 6) are related; I am a US Navy Reservist, and naval tradition requires removal of covers for all hands not in a duty status on the mess decks. You see, back in the days of wooden ships and iron men, the mess decks were the mass casualty treatment areas; Sailors remove their covers on the mess decks as a sign of respect for those that passed on the mess decks as a result of battle.
Retain at following:
1) Out of doors, with exception of funeral services.
2) Public transportation, with exception of TSA screenings.
3) Anywhere where removal is impractical, such as grocery stores or malls.
Chief000731
Practically Family
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- 502
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- Oklahoma
Hatiquette: torn between two worlds
I just turned 60 years old. (My avatar picture is from when I *started* wearing fedoras.) When I started in business in the '70s, hat usage was dying down, and I was just on the tail end. Eventually, I stopped wearing hats, and I have no idea what happened to my first fedora. More recently, after I had been complaining to my girlfriend for years about how I miss the days when men wore hats, she bought me a nice Bailey's fedora on a trip to Las Vegas. I love it!
In the last few years, it seems that fedoras have started getting popular again, particularly stingy-brim ones. (I've started seeing a few porkpie hats, too.) But the hatiquette has changed (or perhaps just disappeared) over the last 40 years, which is really confusing me. So when I was wearing hats, you took your hat off indoors (at least once you got to your office), in an elevator, and when talking to a lady. You might also tip your hat to people. Today, guys seem to treat hats strictly as a fashion accessory, one that stays planted on their head wherever they are.
So I am conflicted: the hatiquette I grew up with tells me that I should take my hat off when I am indoors, but the young folks around me are leaving theirs on all the time. Do I go with my core hatiquette, and stand out as an old fart, or embrace the new, and leave my hat on my head all the time? Complicating the issue is that fact that the infrastructure for taking your hat off (that is, hat check rooms) has pretty much gone by the wayside.
Have any of the rest of you felt this conflict?
Thanks,
Lynn
I just turned 60 years old. (My avatar picture is from when I *started* wearing fedoras.) When I started in business in the '70s, hat usage was dying down, and I was just on the tail end. Eventually, I stopped wearing hats, and I have no idea what happened to my first fedora. More recently, after I had been complaining to my girlfriend for years about how I miss the days when men wore hats, she bought me a nice Bailey's fedora on a trip to Las Vegas. I love it!
In the last few years, it seems that fedoras have started getting popular again, particularly stingy-brim ones. (I've started seeing a few porkpie hats, too.) But the hatiquette has changed (or perhaps just disappeared) over the last 40 years, which is really confusing me. So when I was wearing hats, you took your hat off indoors (at least once you got to your office), in an elevator, and when talking to a lady. You might also tip your hat to people. Today, guys seem to treat hats strictly as a fashion accessory, one that stays planted on their head wherever they are.
So I am conflicted: the hatiquette I grew up with tells me that I should take my hat off when I am indoors, but the young folks around me are leaving theirs on all the time. Do I go with my core hatiquette, and stand out as an old fart, or embrace the new, and leave my hat on my head all the time? Complicating the issue is that fact that the infrastructure for taking your hat off (that is, hat check rooms) has pretty much gone by the wayside.
Have any of the rest of you felt this conflict?
Thanks,
Lynn
- Messages
- 15,339
- Location
- Somewhere south of crazy
Welcome, Lynn. There are several threads on hat etiquette in these pages, some of which might be helpful for you. The bottom line is, there are conflicting feelings about hat etiquette these days, given that hat wearing is so rare.
I myself like to follow at least some of the rules. I always remove hat indoors in restaurants, homes, businesses, church. I leave it on at malls, grocery stores, and brief indoor visits.
Most of the younger folk I see wearing hats indoors are wearing baseball type caps. I still think it is appropriate to remove those indoors, but apparently others don't.
Essentially, you may have to just determine your own etiquette as time goes on.
And by the way, you're right, hat checks and hat stands are almost nonexistant anymore. I usually leave my hat on lap or a chair or under a chair when in a restaurant.
I myself like to follow at least some of the rules. I always remove hat indoors in restaurants, homes, businesses, church. I leave it on at malls, grocery stores, and brief indoor visits.
Most of the younger folk I see wearing hats indoors are wearing baseball type caps. I still think it is appropriate to remove those indoors, but apparently others don't.
Essentially, you may have to just determine your own etiquette as time goes on.
And by the way, you're right, hat checks and hat stands are almost nonexistant anymore. I usually leave my hat on lap or a chair or under a chair when in a restaurant.
Shangas
I'll Lock Up
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- Melbourne, Australia
Traditional hatiquette (I LOVE that word now!) doesn't really exist anymore.
That said, I still tap my hat-brim every now and then (every guy who wears a hat should know how to do that), I do take it off indoors when appropriate (eating, sometimes talking to people, at special events/in special places).
I never got the whole "take your hat off talking to ladies" thing. So I don't do it. That said, there aren't enough people around these days who REALLY remember traditional hatiquette, so that's perhaps why it hasn't survived.
That said, I still tap my hat-brim every now and then (every guy who wears a hat should know how to do that), I do take it off indoors when appropriate (eating, sometimes talking to people, at special events/in special places).
I never got the whole "take your hat off talking to ladies" thing. So I don't do it. That said, there aren't enough people around these days who REALLY remember traditional hatiquette, so that's perhaps why it hasn't survived.
Brent Hutto
One of the Regulars
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- 268
- Location
- South Carolina, USA
I have no memories of a time when felt hats were worn by any male other than the occasional old guy in church when I was a kid or myself these last few years. So I just do what seems reasonable in terms of etiquette. I wear a hat most to cover my (bald) head outdoors. So when I come inside I eventually remove it but not until I can take it off and put it somewhere.
I don't think there is any current-day etiquette principle involved. Carrying my hat around in my hand just because I'm indoors would seem like a needless hassle. So I just pull it off when I get home or arrive at my office or settle in to whatever other places I might be spending time. But often it gets worn for a few minutes or even longer indoors, for instance if I'm shopping or browsing in a store or standing around without settling into one place for a while.
On the occasions when I eat a meal with my mother, she seems to find wearing a hat while eating to be poor form. But in restaurants where no safe spot seems to be available for placing my hat (and if my mom is not around) I just leave it on while I eat. Better than having iced tea dripped on it or someone with greasy hands picking it up to move it while my back is turn. And better than forgetting it and having to turn the car around 3 miles down the road when I remember!
If you're more comfortable following the etiquette that prevailed half a century ago when most men wore hats, that's cool. But I doubt it will be appreciated as such by anyone other than the occasional fellow felt hat wearer you happen to encounter nowadays.
I don't think there is any current-day etiquette principle involved. Carrying my hat around in my hand just because I'm indoors would seem like a needless hassle. So I just pull it off when I get home or arrive at my office or settle in to whatever other places I might be spending time. But often it gets worn for a few minutes or even longer indoors, for instance if I'm shopping or browsing in a store or standing around without settling into one place for a while.
On the occasions when I eat a meal with my mother, she seems to find wearing a hat while eating to be poor form. But in restaurants where no safe spot seems to be available for placing my hat (and if my mom is not around) I just leave it on while I eat. Better than having iced tea dripped on it or someone with greasy hands picking it up to move it while my back is turn. And better than forgetting it and having to turn the car around 3 miles down the road when I remember!
If you're more comfortable following the etiquette that prevailed half a century ago when most men wore hats, that's cool. But I doubt it will be appreciated as such by anyone other than the occasional fellow felt hat wearer you happen to encounter nowadays.
@hatophile: It sounds like you are following not just some, but most of the rules, at least as I remember them. For example, in an office building, it was OK to leave your hat on until you got to your particular office; the common area of the office building was almost considered "outdoors". I think malls and grocery stores would qualify too.
@Shangas: taking your hat off when talking to ladies probably only makes sense if you grew up in the '50s, when men thought of women as the weaker ***, needing protection and deference. (They were protected from things like having good jobs, too, which is unfortunate.) It's from an era when men said "Pardon my French" if they accidentally cursed in front of a lady. (A few years ago, I was taking a night-school class, and there was a 20-year-old girl in the class who would say that whenever she cursed. It was pretty funny, because I hadn't heard anyone say that since my father.) I still take my hat off when talking to ladies, just because that is what my core hatiquette says to do, and it feels right. The ladies probably think I take my hat off because my head is too warm.
I think the bottom line is that I have to keep to my core hatiquette, because otherwise I feel like I am being rude, even though I know that in today's society it does not matter.
Lynn
P.S. An interesting thing about tipping your hat. Among my Black friends, there is something called "the nod", a barely-perceptible nod made in passing. I suspect that this is the last vestige of tipping the hat, in a society where the hats themselves have frequently disappeared.
L
@Shangas: taking your hat off when talking to ladies probably only makes sense if you grew up in the '50s, when men thought of women as the weaker ***, needing protection and deference. (They were protected from things like having good jobs, too, which is unfortunate.) It's from an era when men said "Pardon my French" if they accidentally cursed in front of a lady. (A few years ago, I was taking a night-school class, and there was a 20-year-old girl in the class who would say that whenever she cursed. It was pretty funny, because I hadn't heard anyone say that since my father.) I still take my hat off when talking to ladies, just because that is what my core hatiquette says to do, and it feels right. The ladies probably think I take my hat off because my head is too warm.
I think the bottom line is that I have to keep to my core hatiquette, because otherwise I feel like I am being rude, even though I know that in today's society it does not matter.
Lynn
P.S. An interesting thing about tipping your hat. Among my Black friends, there is something called "the nod", a barely-perceptible nod made in passing. I suspect that this is the last vestige of tipping the hat, in a society where the hats themselves have frequently disappeared.
L
@Brent Hutto: A few years ago, somewhere in these forums, someone mentioned a device for taking care of your hat in restaurants. It was a leather strap with a loop on one end, and a spring clamp on the other. You put the strap around the back of the chair at the top, and put the end through the loop, then you clip the clamp onto the brim of your hat. The hat thus hangs off the back of your chair, where it won't get stepped on, dripped on, or forgotten. I have yet to find one of these devices. I may have to make one.
Lynn
Lynn
DAJE
One of the Regulars
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- Melbourne, Australia
I regard it as a myth that back when hats were common they were always removed when indoors. I've seen plenty of vintage indoors photos of people in bars, diners, etc, where most of the people are wearing hats.
My understanding is that hats were always removed in upscale places that provided hat-checking facilities, but that everywhere else people kept them on their heads because there was nowhere safe to put them. Offices etc had hat-racks, but public hat-racks were rare because unattended hats were easily stolen.
Conditions are no different today: take your hat off if there's somewhere safe and convenient to put it, if not leave it on. In informal settings, it's perfectly acceptable to keep your hat on.
My understanding is that hats were always removed in upscale places that provided hat-checking facilities, but that everywhere else people kept them on their heads because there was nowhere safe to put them. Offices etc had hat-racks, but public hat-racks were rare because unattended hats were easily stolen.
Conditions are no different today: take your hat off if there's somewhere safe and convenient to put it, if not leave it on. In informal settings, it's perfectly acceptable to keep your hat on.
m0nk
One Too Many
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I personally try to follow as many of the former rules of etiquette as possible, just because I feel it's important to still have some sense of structure and respect. Without certain social niceties, we begin the descent into wearing sweatpants and t-shirts to work...
My opinion is also that if you wish to follow these "rules", you're regaining something that's been lost. If you choose not to, at least recognizing the reason that they were accepted at the time is important. Showing respect to your peers, elders, women, as well as places of worship, fine dining establishments, etc, has a lot to do with why these niceties were practiced. That respect is something often missing in modern times, and while it's loss is accepted that doesn't make it right.
My opinion is also that if you wish to follow these "rules", you're regaining something that's been lost. If you choose not to, at least recognizing the reason that they were accepted at the time is important. Showing respect to your peers, elders, women, as well as places of worship, fine dining establishments, etc, has a lot to do with why these niceties were practiced. That respect is something often missing in modern times, and while it's loss is accepted that doesn't make it right.
Shangas
I'll Lock Up
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- 6,108
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- Melbourne, Australia
My rule of thumb/understanding, is the following:
A place/establishment/institution that wants you to remove your hat while under their roof and within their walls, should subtly indicate this desire by the provision of a hat-rack, stand, cloak-room or other such convenient facility.
If no such facilities exist, then I suppose it to be alright for my hat to stay on.
A place/establishment/institution that wants you to remove your hat while under their roof and within their walls, should subtly indicate this desire by the provision of a hat-rack, stand, cloak-room or other such convenient facility.
If no such facilities exist, then I suppose it to be alright for my hat to stay on.
St. Valentine
A-List Customer
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Good one Shangas! I guess that´s the way to go. I would remove my hat entering a church though (although this is a more theoretical point).
Doc Mark
Familiar Face
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- Left Coast
Greetings, All,
I still touch my brim when passing Ladies, and remove my hat indoors, except in the store and other such places. But, as I Living History researcher, I have learned that, in the 18th century, most men wore their hats most all the time, only removing them when in their own homes, or to doff them in respect at certain times. The wearing of hats in eating establishments and Taverns was quite normal, and though the evidence shows that some men removed their hats in such places, it seems that most men did not remove them.
I was born in the 1940's, and most all men wore hats back then, some removing them indoors, and some not. I am now seeing lots of young folks wearing Fedora hats, both male and female, and most of those hats are El Cheapos. The Young seem to have no hatiquette, at all, but I still touch my brim when passing them, and comment on their "nice Fedora's". They seem pleased, and who knows, maybe when they see an Old Fart touching his brim when passing, they might learn something "new", eh?! One can only hope..... Take care, and God Bless!
Every Good Wish,
Doc
I still touch my brim when passing Ladies, and remove my hat indoors, except in the store and other such places. But, as I Living History researcher, I have learned that, in the 18th century, most men wore their hats most all the time, only removing them when in their own homes, or to doff them in respect at certain times. The wearing of hats in eating establishments and Taverns was quite normal, and though the evidence shows that some men removed their hats in such places, it seems that most men did not remove them.
I was born in the 1940's, and most all men wore hats back then, some removing them indoors, and some not. I am now seeing lots of young folks wearing Fedora hats, both male and female, and most of those hats are El Cheapos. The Young seem to have no hatiquette, at all, but I still touch my brim when passing them, and comment on their "nice Fedora's". They seem pleased, and who knows, maybe when they see an Old Fart touching his brim when passing, they might learn something "new", eh?! One can only hope..... Take care, and God Bless!
Every Good Wish,
Doc
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Brent Hutto
One of the Regulars
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- Location
- South Carolina, USA
How can you show respect for people who don't know, care or even notice that you are wearing a hat in the first place? Much less the niceties of when you remove and replace it on your head. It's like wearing clean underwear, if doing so makes you feel better then by all means it's worth doing. But nobody else is going to be cognizant of it.
m0nk
One Too Many
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"You must be the change you want to see in the world...."
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Because of the attitudes of today your question is not do what do others do, but should be do what is right.
We live in a world where boys walk around with their pants halfway down their thighs showing their underwear and girls walk around in pj's. Clearly all concepts of acceptability is what ever. Someday the pendulum will swing back to some sense of propriaty, you'll be at the forefront.
We live in a world where boys walk around with their pants halfway down their thighs showing their underwear and girls walk around in pj's. Clearly all concepts of acceptability is what ever. Someday the pendulum will swing back to some sense of propriaty, you'll be at the forefront.
