Buying advice for beginner

[jchance]

I have a big head (7 5/8 or 61cm), and from what I’ve gathered, vintage lids at 7 1/2 or larger can be rare and hard to find. That leaves me with buying it new. From what I’ve read, Optimo and Akubra are worth buying new (?)

Lids I’ve owned are:
-Vintage Stetson boater (sold, wrong size)
-Vintage Stetson Royal DeLuxe (wrong size, would prob move soon)
-Borsalino wool felt
-Dobbs shantung straw
-Retisol cowboy

As you can see, I don’t yet have a lot of experience with hats. I would appreciate some advices and tips as to what else I should know about regarding fedora collecting at my head size. Should I skip the whole vintage game altogether given my head size?

I live in LA. Is Hollywood Hatters worth checking out?

 

[Jon Crow]

I have a big head (7 5/8 or 61cm), and from what I’ve gathered, vintage lids at 7 1/2 or larger can be rare and hard to find. That leaves me with buying it new. From what I’ve gathered, Optimo and Akubra are worth buying new (?)

Lids I’ve owned are:
-Vintage Stetson boater (sold, wrong size)
-Vintage Stetson Royal DeLuxe (wrong size, would prob move soon)
-Borsalino wool felt
-Dobbs shantung straw
-Retisol cowboy

As you can see, I don’t yet have a lot of experience with hats. I would appreciate some advices and tips as to what else I should know about regarding fedora collecting at my head size. Should I skip the whole vintage game altogether given my head size?

I live in LA. Is Hollywood Hatters worth checking out?

Chance I'm a 7 3/4 turnip or 59cm so I'm up in the big head range

 

[belfastboy]

I have a big head (7 5/8 or 61cm), and from what I’ve gathered, vintage lids at 7 1/2 or larger can be rare and hard to find. That leaves me with buying it new. From what I’ve gathered, Optimo and Akubra are worth buying new (?)

Lids I’ve owned are:
-Vintage Stetson boater (sold, wrong size)
-Vintage Stetson Royal DeLuxe (wrong size, would prob move soon)
-Borsalino wool felt
-Dobbs shantung straw
-Retisol cowboy

As you can see, I don’t yet have a lot of experience with hats. I would appreciate some advices and tips as to what else I should know about regarding fedora collecting at my head size. Should I skip the whole vintage game altogether given my head size?

I live in LA. Is Hollywood Hatters worth checking out?

What is your budget? The gap between Akubra and Optimo is HUGE. Akubra, under $200.....Optimo upwards to $2000. Akubra is a great place to start for newbies. They represent great value.

Akubra make decent looking hats, hard wearing and the price offers good value. I suggest you start at that end of scale. Don't upgrade to Optimo until you have found your style preference.

There is a very good chance your hat choice/hat proportions/dimensions will shift as you get used to wearing hats. I have been a hat wearer, hat collector and now hat maker for a goodly chunk of my life. My style choices and price points have def changed over the years. The Akubra Stylemaster is a good place to start with if you want a fedora with middle of the road proportions/dimensions.
Then likely you will move up to wider brims and taller crowns. When you settle on YOUR lane then consider moving up to a custom made hat. Move from rabbit up to beaver felt. The prices can be reasonable......and range from $325 up to $1000 depending on rabbit or beaver. Enjoy the journey.

 

[jchance]

What is your budget?

Thanks, no budget but I’d like to get good value for the money spent. I’d also like to try the highest quality of lids ever made at some point.

I’ve tried small, medium, and large brims and currently I’m at the medium brim. I haven’t yet identified which color is my color, nor which crown size.

Chance I'm a 7 3/4 turnip or 59cm so I'm up in the big head range

7 3/4 is 62cm. 59cm is 7 3/8. Which are you?

 

[The Lost Cowboy]

In my experience, Akubra is better value for the money than most modern Stetsons or Borsalinos (there are a few exceptions, but generally). And like others said, Akubra is a good place to start a hat journey (it's where many of us here started).

One of the easiest hats to wear from Akubra is a Campdraft. It comes open crown and holds up to hard wear. Search TFL for campdrafts and you will find tons of info and pics.

Here is a David Morgan listing for the Campdrafts as well as the Adventurer (DM is the official Akubra outlet in the U.S.). The black CD is still on sale - it's worth that price for sure:

Open Crown Akubra Hats -- Adventurer, Campdraft and Aussie Slouch : David Morgan

For those of you who still want an individualized bash, we offer a number of open crown hats from Akubra. Shape the crown to suit you best, whether in a classic fedora bash, the modified fedora bash popularized by Indiana Jones, or your own personal bash.

www.davidmorgan.com

 

[jchance]

Thanks, I will check those out. I should also mention that I haven’t been impressed with any of the fedoras (wool felt and shantung straw) I’ve owned. They feel cheap, except for the vintage Stetson Royal DeLuxe (I think it’s fur), which feels ok. Not sure what I’m looking for but I’d like to try a higher level of quality. Ultimately, I’d want end up with just two hats: a winter one and a summer one (prob montecristi panama). Maybe I should try out more to find my style before investing in nice ones.

 

[belfastboy]

Thanks, no budget but I’d like to get good value for the money spent. I’d also like to try the highest quality of lids ever made at some point.

I’ve tried small, medium, and large brims and currently I’m at the medium brim. I haven’t yet identified which color is my color, nor which crown size.



7 3/4 is 62cm. 59cm is 7 3/8. Which are you?

How do you define a medium brim? Akubra offers great value for the money and is a great starting point. The usual progression is Akubra, Robert Hall, low end Stetson then a step up to an off the rack Stetson, then once you have found your "style lane' you can move up another notch to a custom. Value for money is a subjective thing. I am a custom hat maker, using much the same components as Optimo. Optimo charges $2000 while I am in the $500 range. If you have the money burning a hole in your pocket then by all means buy an Optimo. If you are more of a shopper without unlimited funds then once you get to the custom stage then look around for a different custom hat maker.
Wool and Shantung/Toyo hats look cheap because they are. Wool is a terrible fibre with which to make hats. Get a good beaver and a decent weave Panama and you have your two hats. Both for under $4000 if you go with Optimo.

 

[jlee562]

The thing about Optimo, is that they use a higher grade of beaver felt. See this post from a HatCo employee for a more in-depth explanation. Long story short, all 100% beaver felts are not necessarily created equal. So while it is true other hatters have access to FEPSA felts, they are different from what Optimo uses. Optimo also has exclusive colors in addition to the higher grade beaver. They also have more of the factory equipment than the average smaller hatter, e.g. blocking machine vs by hand with an iron. Optimo also decatizes their hats, which is a process that most other hatters simply don't have the space or equipment to do.

All that having been said, is it a good choice for your first custom? Maybe, maybe not. If money is no object, give them a ring. Tiffani will probably handle your call. She's great and great at her job, and they do 'phone fittings' all the time. Though they tend to favor a more tapered block than some other classic straight-er sided profiles. Does one really need a silver beaver hat? Well probably not, but if I had the extra cash, would I buy another Optimo? Probably yes!

Akubras are very good hats, but the price difference is a little bit more than branding and marketing. Akubras infamously shrink and everybody just sort of accepts this as a quirk of them. But they shrink because the leather they use is lower quality relative to some of the competition. Most all custom hatters will use a much higher quality roan leather which will be much more resilient to shrinking. Akubras are also less finely finished than some of their competitors. At the end of the day, the difference is tiny, and the kind of thing that only the hat obsessed would notice. But if you held an Akubra side by side with an Optimo, the latter would be smoother to the touch, while the former would be coarser (we usually refer to this as the "hand" of the felt). Will you notice this while wearing it? Not really. Will most people notice? Not likely. So I don't want to make a huge deal out of it, but part of the price difference is time spent on finishing.

 

[vrDrew63]

I should also mention that I haven’t been impressed with any of the fedoras (wool felt and shantung straw) I’ve owned. They feel cheap, except for the vintage Stetson Royal DeLuxe (I think it’s fur), which feels ok.

There is a huge difference between hats made of wool felt, and those made of fur felt. Wool felt is fine for making billiard tables, where it stays dry, not so great for hats. Where they get wet.

Fur felt starts out with rabbit felt, which is OK. My first "good" fedora is a nice dark grey one in rabbit felt. It's a perfectly workable hat and looks fine. But once you get into the 100% Beaver felt, territory, it is like night and day. The felt has softness, a sheen, and holds its shape in a way that is truly unique. You can buy a fur-felt hat for ~ $200 or so. A 100% Beaver felt hat starts at $500. Which seemed like a crazy amount to pay for a hat. Until you see it, and wear it. For $500 plus, you can consider having the hat custom-made, which means it will fit you perfectly. This is just my opinion, but I think its a better value to have a custom hat maker make a bespoke hat for you in the $500-700 range, than buying a Borsalino or similar "off the peg" brand. You may have to wait a few weeks (months!) for a custom-made hat - but it will be worth it.

 

[Hurricane Jack]

The thing about Optimo, is that they use a higher grade of beaver felt. See this post from a HatCo employee for a more in-depth explanation. Long story short, all 100% beaver felts are not necessarily created equal. So while it is true other hatters have access to FEPSA felts, they are different from what Optimo uses. Optimo also has exclusive colors in addition to the higher grade beaver. They also have more of the factory equipment than the average smaller hatter, e.g. blocking machine vs by hand with an iron. Optimo also decatizes their hats, which is a process that most other hatters simply don't have the space or equipment to do.

All that having been said, is it a good choice for your first custom? Maybe, maybe not. If money is no object, give them a ring. Tiffani will probably handle your call. She's great and great at her job, and they do 'phone fittings' all the time. Though they tend to favor a more tapered block than some other classic straight-er sided profiles. Does one really need a silver beaver hat? Well probably not, but if I had the extra cash, would I buy another Optimo? Probably yes!

Akubras are very good hats, but the price difference is a little bit more than branding and marketing. Akubras infamously shrink and everybody just sort of accepts this as a quirk of them. But they shrink because the leather they use is lower quality relative to some of the competition. Most all custom hatters will use a much higher quality roan leather which will be much more resilient to shrinking. Akubras are also less finely finished than some of their competitors. At the end of the day, the difference is tiny, and the kind of thing that only the hat obsessed would notice. But if you held an Akubra side by side with an Optimo, the latter would be smoother to the touch, while the former would be coarser (we usually refer to this as the "hand" of the felt). Will you notice this while wearing it? Not really. Will most people notice? Not likely. So I don't want to make a huge deal out of it, but part of the price difference is time spent on finishing.

Excellent post, Jared. I couldn’t agree more. I wish more newbies got it.

To the OP I wear a size 7-5/8, 61cm or 24” circumference. With patience you can find the vintage style you like & are after. Always by the best example you can. The word “custom” has evolved to mean something different nowadays. It’s no longer used to clone a rare example of a vintage hat whose survival rate is so low that you will never find an original survivor. Rather “custom” has come to mean you get to pick the color & ribbon to match your favorite shirt. Anyone with a couple of blocks & a flange can call themselves a hat maker. Apprenticeships are a thing of the past.

 

[jchance]

Good points, thank you all for your tips, some I’m already familiar with from researching the forum and others that are new to me. I’m still new to the game and I don’t even know the right questions to ask or what the issues are, so I appreciate you raising them for me to consider and look into. My attention to detail is still excellent, from loving and collecting clothes generally, so I am picky and can definitely find faults with hats. From a reductionist’s point of view, it’s still a piece of fabric with a leather band and some stitchings—that I could judge.

Is money no object? That’s not entirely true but that’s not how I view things. Would I spend $500 and be not fully pleased with the product, or spend $2000 and be completely happy with it? I’d rather do the latter, but those are not the only two options, with a plethora of options in between. I’d like to spend the least possible while maximizing the value received.

I might start off buying preowned custom hats at my size to try out beaver lids and see what they are all about. While I’d lose the perfect sizing aspect of going custom, I’d still get the material and construction right (assuming they were from hat makers the forum raves about). If I need to recoup, selling them wouldn’t be so bad. Until I’m more experienced, I’m not yet comfortable with going custom and keeping it for life.

 

[Hurricane Jack]

PS: Vic @carouselvic posted this vintage guide a long time ago from Hat Life concerning faces & body types. I’m not going to repost all 14 pages but just a couple pages so you know what to look for. Search the threads for Vic’s post to find it complete. All newbies should be required to buy a good mirror before buying their first hat.

 

[vrDrew63]

I might start off buying preowned custom hats at my size to try out beaver lids and see what they are all about. While I’d lose the perfect sizing aspect of going custom, I’d still get the material and construction right (assuming they were from hat makers the forum raves about). If I need to recoup, selling them wouldn’t be so bad. Until I’m more experienced, I’m not yet comfortable with going custom and keeping it for life.

Having been on my own multi-year hat buying journey, I think your instincts are correct. I wouldn't suggest most men pick out a $600 custom hat as their first choice. You've got to find a hat shape and style that fits your face and physique, the sorts of clothes and circumstances you'll be wearing it, and your comfort level.

It is possible to buy a <$200 fur-felt fedora, in standard sizes, from many different manufacturers. The felt is going to be rabbit. Which is great. Make sure the hat has a sweatband and a satin/silk lining. And it's going to be a proper hat. Not a piece of costume. If you get lucky and find a beaver-felt vintage hat, in your size, then by all means go down that route. Rabbit-fur felt is fine for a first good hat. It will hold up to the odd bit of rain, and with a lining and decent sweatband, it will be warm and comfortable.

Summer hats? I'm a fan of genuine toquilla straw hats, handwoven in Ecuador. But even here, you need to be a bit careful. They sell lots of "tourist" Panamas, for under $100, that sadly fall apart fairly quickly. They use a simple "Brisa" weave, which isn't very durable. Spend a bit more (~$150 or so) and you'll get a beautiful hat that will last you many seasons. Cuenca, or - for the well-heeled - Montecristi woven.

 

[jchance]

How do you define a medium brim?

I currently have 4 hats with various brim sizes. 1.5” is too small, whereas 4.25” is too large. 2” and 2.25” work better for my face, with a slight preference towards 2” but I’m still experimenting.

Summer hats? I'm a fan of genuine toquilla straw hats, handwoven in Ecuador. But even here, you need to be a bit careful. They sell lots of "tourist" Panamas, for under $100, that sadly fall apart fairly quickly. They use a simple "Brisa" weave, which isn't very durable. Spend a bit more (~$150 or so) and you'll get a beautiful hat that will last you many seasons. Cuenca, or - for the well-heeled - Montecristi woven.

Felt hat seems to be a different endeavor compared to straw hat. For the summer hat, should I go with Gomez Hat Co. who is within driving distance (1-2 hours) from me? I’ve read that he gets Panama hats from Ecuador and does top-notch custom work on them. Not like there are many options for colors, so as long as I can nail down the crown size and brim size, it appears that I’d be done with the summer-hat route.

 

[belfastboy]

I currently have 4 hats with various brim sizes. 1.5” is too small, whereas 4.25” is too large. 2” and 2.25” work better for my face, with a slight preference towards 2” but I’m still experimenting.



Felt hat seems to be a different endeavor compared to straw hat. For the summer hat, should I go with Gomez Hat Co. who is within driving distance (1-2 hours) from me? I’ve read that he gets Panama hats from Ecuador and does top-notch custom work on them. Not like there are many options for colors, so as long as I can nail down the crown size and brim size, it appears that I’d be done with the summer-hat route.

2" is still considered in "stingy brim" territory, 2 1/4" is Trilby. A Fedora is generally considered 2 1/2" out to perhaps 3". Go slow, as I project you may end up out to 2 1/2" if you follow the standard brim width evolution of hat wearers. So don't buy that Optimo just yet.

Gomez is a quality hat guy. My preference when it comes to Panama straws is to not spend a lot of money on one. I would rather have a mid grade (Grade 3 or so) in the $300 range. Then I would be inclined to wear it and not baby it. If I were to spend $600++ I would baby it and would more pick my spots about the where and when. For $300 you can get a very nice weave that looks great and from 4' away one would be hard pressed to tell it apart from one 3x the price.
Then with your felt hat, consider owning two. I have a huge collection of hats that range from those resurrected from the trash bin to expensive custom made (beaver/mink & beaver/chinchilla).

In heavy rain I do not wear my expensive ones. I keep the expensive ones for pure dress occassions and I do baby them. I have very nice hats but at a much lower price point and those are my rainy day, knockabout, go for a walk hats.