Comparison: Schott 618HH vs. 613SH

[Tom71]

I decided to make a designated comparison-thread instead of including lenghty remarks in one of the two "jacket-related" threads in existence. Hope it helps for future referencing.

After some extended lusting, I ordered a 613SH in May 2023. @Aloysius put the jacket on my radar with hith very good "Hidden in plain..." thread (which now includes all the relevant info on this jacket from various posters.).

I was immediately stricken by how beautiful this jacket is. I have had previous experience with some limited edition runs of the Perfecto, and none of them impressed. This changed. The 613SH is a superb jacket!
I don´t want to repeat everything already posted in the original thread, but I do feel it worthwhile to repeat the basic observation on size and fit: The 613SH wears trim and small. It´s listed as a slim fit on the Schott website, but it does indeed wear even smaller than the measurements would suggest.

Although pretty pleased with the jacket, , I have since wanted to try a "real classic" Perfecto. I had quickly settled on the 618HH, because I was curious about the fit, most of all, because I am into horsehide and Schott´s trademark "shine".

Both the "Hidden in plain..."-thread and the dedicated 618HH thread "The good, the bad and the ugly" left me puzzled re sizing. Some members suggested sizing according to the 613SH, some voiced strong recommendations to size up. Schott´s website also suggested the same size as the 613SH, but does not contain any info that narrows the differences down.

I finally had the opportunity to try the 618HH in person when I visited the NYC-flagship store in Howard St. during a business-trip. I ended up taking size 44, which is the same as in the 613SH. I did try the 46, but while it probably would have worked in the shoulders, it was too large by a noticeable margin everywhere else, especially in the chest/torso region.

Having worn the jacket for a 2-hour-hike during my trip, on the retrun-journey and this morning, I have to say, the jacket feels to be a perfect fit, and I am even more in love than I was during the honeymoon-phase with the 613SH.

I will now elaborate on measurements, fit-impressions and my preliminary conclusion on where the differences transfer into real-life use. After that I will post pictures of both jackets respectively.

 

[Tom71]

Measurements:

I hand-measured both jackets, using a hard-tape and applying the same methodology. While the numbers do differ somewhat from the info that Schotts sends out to prospetive buyers, they are at least consistent amongst themselves and with measurements and post for other jackets.

Both jackets are size 44.

613SH

P2P: 23,2"
Hem: 21,6"
Shoulder 19"
Sleeve (straight down): 26"
Back: 25,2"
Front (neckline at back (!) to hem): 26,4"

618HH

P2P: 23,6"
Hem: 22"
Shoulder: 18,7"
Sleeve: 24,8"
Back: 25"
Front: 25,5"

Fit

Both jackets are listed as a "slim-fit".

One of the main differences between the jackerts is how this translates into the impression while wearing the jacket.
While the 618HH initially "feels" pretty tight in the shoulders, it wears much more comfortable than the 613SH. Both jackets have back-gusstes, but only the 618HH also has underarm-footballs, that increase movability as compared to the SH.
When you look at the back-pictures, you clearly see that the more elaborate construction of the HH creates room for manouver. Up to you, how you like it visually.

P2P and shoulder measurements are reasonably similar, so I am now convinced that the functional difference lies in the underarm construction only.
The apparent tightness in the shoulders led me to try on size 46 in comparison. I can well see that for a person who´s weight is distributed differently to me, this can make a decisive reason to size up.

The second main difference for the impression of fit is front-length. While the 613SH has a noticeable front-drop, the 618HH does not, and when standing erect, even appears to be shorter in the front.
This has functional reasons, of course, and makes sitting down with a zipped jacket easy, but I can see a number of people finding the jacket too cropped for casual wear.
Personally, my impression always was, that the 613SH was ever so slightly long in the front, so I do embrace the shortness of the 618HH.
In the fit-pictures I wear a tan-coloured pair of jeans, so that you can see exactly where both jackets land.

Back-lenght is pretty much the same, but the 618HH has a little curve that balances the look out perfectly, IMO.

I don´t know what´s going on with sleeve-length. A difference of more than one inch (measured straight down!) should make a real difference, but while the sleeves of the 613SH ARE longer, the others are definitely not short-short. Do see for yourselves in the photos.

If you look at the measurements from shoulders via chest to hem it would appears that the 613SH is more v-shaped than the 618HH. While the later does have a pretty generous hem, it certainly doesn´t appear as boxy as it is by numbers alone.

Leather

Both jackets obvioulsy use the same leather. Schott´s website talks about a 3-3,5oz. horsehide, tanned in Italy which is "very stiff". Unnecessary confusion is caused by the "compare with similar styles" function that differentiates between "stiff" (618HH) and "extra stiff" (613SH).
Touching, seing and smelling the jacket at the store, it was immediately apparent that, both jackets use the same hide, and there is no difference in treatment, weight etc.
(just as an anectode, the guys at the store were non-committal in that respect and would answer repeated questions only with a "yes, it´s both horsehide...").

For me this is great news, as the leather is really outstanding. While having a nice heft, it appears super-luxurious, creases discreetly in all the right places and just feels, looks and smells like a million bucks. Nonsensical to rate something like personal taste, but for me it´s up there with the very best variants of Shinki or the chrome-tanned horsehide Lewis Leathers used before turning to that vinyly stuff presently in use.

Both jackets weight 2,4kg.

Conclusion

Heavily biased by being over the moon with this latest purchase. Today, I would prefer the 618HH over the 613SH as a daily wearer.
It retains everything I love about the 613SH (classic-features, slim-fit and the leather, leather, leather), while tweaking the fit-experience in the spots, where the 613SH left room for improvement (the oddly restrictive feeling when moving the arms around; the discreet "coat" impression due to the front-drop).

The 613SH may still have the edge when it comes to layering with a slightly longer jumper/sweater), e.g. when it comes to protection from the elements.

It will now take a while to see if there´s room for two rather similar jackets in the mid-term.

Miscellaneous

I tried on a steerhide version of the 613/618 as well and was impressed how nice the leather is. This came as a surprise, as I had filed the "classic Perfecto hides" under "dull and lifeless", but if I hadn´t grabbed the 618HH for whatever reason, I would have been tempted by a steerhide variant as well.

I am somewhat frustrated that I didn´t think about getting a (fake) mouton collar for the jacket while I was there. I always find, these really alter the look of the jacket almost into "new-jacket" territory. Alas, I forgot...

Off to some pictures now. Any additional questions, just ask away, of course...!

 

[Tom71]

613SH

 

[Tom71]

618HH

 

[Zoro]

This is how I feel looking at these two jackets:

 

[Bfd70]

So you took the size recommended by the size chart?

 

[Tom71]

So you took the size recommended by the size chart?

Ultimately, I did.

I need to list ‚slim‘ as my ‚fit preference‘. When I move to ‚standard‘, I am recommended to size up.
I don’t think that makes much sense, as the 46 in both jackets is just plainly too large in the torso (the SH also in the sleeve).

I am glad that I got the chance to try on, as I was pretty confused by the recent posts in both the ‚Hidden‘ and the ‚Good, bad, ugly‘ threads where various members thought the 618HH was one size up from the 613 SH.

 

[Bfd70]

in 613 i am recommended 42 at standard and 40 slim
618hh i am recommended 42 for standard and slim

 

[Tom71]

This is how I feel looking at these two jackets:

View attachment 747699

So says my wife. She still believes, I only have two jackets. The black one (that sometimes appears brown, depending on light) and the tan one.

 

[Tom71]

in 613 i am recommended 42 at standard and 40 slim
618hh i am recommended 42 for standard and slim

I believe, the recommendations work in general, but of course bodytypes vary.

I can imagine that for the 618HH much turns on shoulder/upper back. If you are very v-shaped, you would need to size for shoulders and somehow live with a wide hem.
The 613SH needs to be sized according to hip/waist which is the one measurement the Schott calculator ‚overlooks‘.

 

[RJD257]

@Tom71 - Thanks so much for being "da man," and stepping up and making this distinct, dedicated thread ! SO Much Better & Easier (...it was getting a bit challenging to follow the "ping-pong" between the other two - although we can happily hyper-link anything from those we feel is relevant & not redundant here....) I've tried them both on as well (...as earlier stated...) and I guess I must be more of a "V" because the 46 618HH is what works for me personally (...even though I'm a size "Medium" in most garments...) Let's see what those look like as they age & get even more broken in ! Create a Great Day Rich

 

[Aloysius]

Unnecessary confusion is caused by the "compare with similar styles" function that differentiates between "stiff" (618HH) and "extra stiff" (613SH).

This is because the 613SH used to be the only jacket that uses this hide (the other horsehide jackets used a thinner version) but at some point the 618HH switched to it (as that guy who's now banned or something told us last year).

Great thread and very useful. I tried on the 618HH when I was in LA and the 42 (my size in 613SH) felt a bit too snug but I wonder how much that's a case of the lack of break in, because my 613SH felt too snug at first too.

Let me know next time you're in NY for work. I no longer live there but I am still up fairly often.

Next time though maybe see if you can nudge your employer to set the meeting in October when the Schott annual factory sale happens...

 

[beetleything]

Both jackets in your pictures look lose and baggy to me.

Both backs have folds in the them at the shoulders.

It doesn't look like your shoulders fill out the jacket.

 

[Tom71]

This is because the 613SH used to be the only jacket that uses this hide (the other horsehide jackets used a thinner version) but at some point the 618HH switched to it (as that guy who's now banned or something told us last year).

Great thread and very useful. I tried on the 618HH when I was in LA and the 42 (my size in 613SH) felt a bit too snug but I wonder how much that's a case of the lack of break in, because my 613SH felt too snug at first too.

Let me know next time you're in NY for work. I no longer live there but I am still up fairly often.

Next time though maybe see if you can nudge your employer to set the meeting in October when the Schott annual factory sale happens...

I was actually considering reaching out to a few people for a meet up. Thing is, I am only ever in NYC for 2-3 days and pack my days full with meetings. It’s just not my favourite place in the world.
I did set aside 90 minutes for my visit to Howard St. and had to learn that the commute from/to Midtown these days alone eats up most of this.

Anyway, would love to meet and will Let you know well in and Vance, next time I am over.

 

[Tom71]

Both jackets in your pictures look lose and baggy to me.

Both backs have folds in the them at the shoulders.

It doesn't look like your shoulders fill out the jacket.

Thank you for your insight. I can assure you, I couldn’t size down in either of the jackets.

I am not after a “bespoke“ fit in a functional garment. I am with dress suits as evidenced by my latest “tongue-in-cheek” post in the WJAYWT thread.

 

[Aloysius]

Thank you for your insight. I can assure you, I couldn’t size down in either of the jackets.

I am not after a “bespoke“ fit in a functional garment. I am with dress suits as evidenced by my latest “tongue-in-cheek” post in the WJAYWT thread.

Not to mention back drape like that would actually be desirable in a bespoke suit, too!

 

[Tom71]

@Tom71 - Thanks so much for being "da man," and stepping up and making this distinct, dedicated thread ! SO Much Better & Easier (...it was getting a bit challenging to follow the "ping-pong" between the other two - although we can happily hyper-link anything from those we feel is relevant & not redundant here....) I've tried them both on as well (...as earlier stated...) and I guess I must be more of a "V" because the 46 618HH is what works for me personally (...even though I'm a size "Medium" in most garments...) Let's see what those look like as they age & get even more broken in ! Create a Great Day Rich

Thank you!

A size 46 for a “medium” guy seems wild, but I can absolutely see where you’re coming from.
With the (relatively) short sleeves, there’s no room for compromise on shoulder width.

I guess, with broader shoulder, the upper body panels drape better, and when zipped you can always engage the belt.
With my mediocre shoulders (c.f. also the very entertaining post of our friend @beetleything) the front just creates an unsightly bulk.

 

[ton312]

I like the SH better. Somehow the fit through the sleeves and body looks better to me. The leather on both is beautiful. What does SH stand for? Super heavy, shiny horse, slim horse?

If I were in the market that’s the perfecto I’d go for. And given the recent sky rockets in price among other makers this jacket is a steal and looks better too.

 

[Tom71]

I like the SH better. Somehow the fit through the sleeves and body looks better to me. The leather on both is beautiful. What does SH stand for? Super heavy, shiny horse, slim horse?

If I were in the market that’s the perfecto I’d go for. And given the recent sky rockets in price among other makers this jacket is a steal and looks better too.

That´s fair. Of course, the 618HH is still a long way from broken in, so it´s bound to mold some more.

You should see if you can try on the 613SH somewhere. Making a guess at your fit-prefernces, you may want to shoot at a 42. I can see movability then becoming an issue for you.

SH: others will know. I always took it to be "Slim Horse".

 

[leatherbikescarsnwatches]

Oh man that 618 HH is going to break in beaut! That front zipped up shot showing some grain already...... Chef's kiss I could see why you loved it immediately upon purchase! Sometimes it's hard to describe to another just that feeling of rightness with a jacket. Wear in good health!