Eastman Leather Clothing Ostmann Luftwaffe Jacket Brown

Discussion in 'Outerwear' started by HPA Rep, Dec 6, 2017.

  1. HPA Rep

    HPA Rep Vendor

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    It's possible, Willyto, that ELC made some capeskin versions as either custom orders or on an experimental basis, but I do not know this. Gary made me both goatskin and horsehide versions in brown when neither the hides nor colors were available in the late '90's, so capeskin versions could have been produced from 2007, though I am ignorant of this.

    Thank you very much, Willyto, for your flattering words. It's all smoke and mirrors, though!!! Ha!

    If I can muster any objectivity on this subject, though, I have to agree that these photo shoots seem to turn out pretty well; even my other half just said she approves, so who am I to disagree??? Doing these shoots also restrains me from indulging in the eating excesses of the holidays - just celery sticks and water for me in the cooler! ;-)

    Thank you!
     
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  2. HPA Rep

    HPA Rep Vendor

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    You are on the right track, Big J, and I had forgotten about Michael Caine's jacket in "The Eagle Has Landed." Boy, I recall seeing that in the theater and how it further fueled my interest in the Left. jacket style. I think the style is both sportier and dressier than the A-2, which is certainly not said to take anything away from the A-2,; this is just my observation and opinion. I would wear this Luft. jacket or the Hartmann with a necktie and feel more not out of place at a "sharp-dress affair" than in an A-2. The design just lends a different air, I think, and it may well be European.
     
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  3. HPA Rep

    HPA Rep Vendor

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    Thank you very much for the interest, Randy. I am so very sorry to have missed your question last week, but as some know, there was an extremely unpleasant distraction here on TFL that impacted me directly and some undue measure of my time was expended in addressing it, but this has been removed from sight and sound, at least for now.

    The measures can be found on all of our product pages under the tabs entitled PRODUCT MEASUREMENTS at the top of each page; I've posted below the measures to help you along, so please have a look:

    Screen Shot 2017-12-18 at 6.36.39 PM.png

    You might find the arm measure lacking in a 44R, but when making comparison, please do take into account the shoulder width's half measure to be added to the arm length, thus yielding the overall shirt-sleeve measure (I'm 33" and you can see where the sleeve length of the 40R falls on me).

    Please advise if you need anything else at all. Thank you!
     
  4. HPA Rep

    HPA Rep Vendor

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    Thank you, nightandthecity, for the interesting background on what surely is the first run of the Luftwaffe style from ELC. I, for one, would love to see some photos of this as these 12-20 pieces never got to the USA; our first Luft. jackets arrived late Jan. 1990.

    I'm guessing that since ELC wasn't offering any horsehide options at the time; these early jackets may have had the hides over-dyed black from steer hide stocks on hand at the tannery for A-2's and B-3's. It's fairly uncommon to see a brown dye base on black leather, but it does exist and maybe this was what Gary Eastman intended at that time.

    Thank you!
     
  5. Big J

    Big J Call Me a Cab

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    A happy new year to you and your family Charles.

    I have an idle question; between the Ostmann and the Hartmann styles, which do you think has the most forgiving cut around the waist?
    I'm a 48 chest and a 38 waist. This is supposed to be the 'ideal' 10 inch difference according to WWII draft board gathered data, but I always feel that at larger chest sizes, a 10 inch drop is less than ideal, leaving trim cut jackets feeling too snug sometimes (for example, a size 48 ELC G-1 is too snug around the waist for me). Maybe I need to be a 36 inch waist.
     
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  6. bn1966

    bn1966 Call Me a Cab

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    I've got both ELC Jackets and with mine the waist is more forgiving on the Hartmann....
     
  7. Big J

    Big J Call Me a Cab

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  8. rocketeer

    rocketeer Call Me a Cab

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    Ok you lot, as we are discussing the Eastman Luftwaffe style,how about this custom jacket Gary made for me. It must have been mid 1990s and ordered at a show, came with a discount too :) , I still have the receipt also but can't find it at the moment.
    Basically I had it slightly altered to an old bike jacket style with zips on all pockets and the rear pleats removed. The cut still worked but these was Gary's 'Off the shoulder' look as I like to describe it and was indeed rather baggy at the shoulders as can be seen in the last photo taken around 1998(check the shoulder seam)
    An advantage of the bigger shoulders is I can fit an armoured vest underneath and it hardly shows. I have worn this riding my old BSA A65 and also it gets a regular outing when I pop out on my 2012 Bonneville. The only things I have added or taken away are the star shaped BSA enamel pin badge and the zipper pull tabs replaced with 'string' leather around 3ins long, the originals would stick out like a strippers nipple tassels once the wind flow had twirled the pulls around.
    Oh yes, its a 44, steerhide and had those nice shiny RiRi chrome zips(the grey ones look Yuk in my opinion) Hardly any wear and a million years worth of riding before it will look scrappy.
    Despite it not being a truly authentic style of any historical item( i believe) it stands up to anything Lewis produce at the moment and the buckle does not scratch the tank of any bike I own.
    Seeya's, JTee

    [​IMG]




    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
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  9. Downunder G Man

    Downunder G Man One Too Many

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    "Very" similar to both of my Eastman Luftwaffe jackets. Mine are "off the peg" of course...

    c1992 and a more recent purchase ( "barely used")...AKA brand new hung in a wardrobe in Southern England for 4 or 5 years

    The first served as my Harley "bike" jacket for 15+ years/170,000+ k's , and tho' now time worn is still way cool...

    Been relined here in Australia in black cotton as the original blue lining eventually wore out.

    Same Greek leatherworker here in Western Australia who relined it "copied" me another in Black Goat ( lighter ) for use here in HOT Australia.

    Then the second "new" purchase here in Australia from UK eBay..

    They will all 3 see me out no doubt , just hoping that' a LONG way away haha...( that's the plan !).
     
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  10. bn1966

    bn1966 Call Me a Cab

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    Very nice Rocketeer:)

    I absolutely love these 'Ostmann' jackets & have had mine in steer for years and used it loads.
    Shows no sign of real wear as of yet. I did ask if I could have one made with a lighter lining for milder weather but 'no dice'. Wanted to ride in mine but for some strange reason jacket feels tight around the back of the neck when I'm armoured up underneath & isn't viable because I can't turn my head properly :)
     
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  11. bn1966

    bn1966 Call Me a Cab

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    Now the Hartmann would make a nice riding jacket if it wasn't made of Cape :)
     
  12. seres

    seres A-List Customer

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    Same here. I like the jacket, but wish it had a lighter cotton lining. Then it would be almost perfect.
     
  13. willyto

    willyto One Too Many

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    After seeing this jacket on Charles and the Hartmann although I originally liked more the Hartmann I think the fact that you can tapper down the Ostmann with the side adjusters it's a win for me. I have a very loose Aero 50s Half Belt and I much prefer the snug fit of my vintage half belts. Same with wool jackets, I like them snug around the waist and hips.

    Te thing that I really dislike are the zipper colours. That grey colour is so dull...

    [​IMG]

    On Eastman's website the black one seems to have a different one.
     
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  14. seres

    seres A-List Customer

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    Yes, my black Ostmann has a shiny Riri silver chrome zip. Very nice!
     
  15. rocketeer

    rocketeer Call Me a Cab

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    Are you listening Gary?
    Maybe the grey colour comes from an original jacket as I have seen similar of other WWII German equipment and clothing.
    The photo at the bottom left of the waist adjuster appears to have the heavy pleats of the original design jacket.
     
  16. rocketeer

    rocketeer Call Me a Cab

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    Maybe the shoulder shape has/had changed when you bought this? My Aero Highwayman is not really comfy with an armoured Knox vest either so stick to the Eastman.
     
  17. HPA Rep

    HPA Rep Vendor

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    Happy New Year, Big J!

    We returned to work on the 3rd, but the weather event of the 4th slowed progress in getting back to normal, which we still haven't achieved, but I realized I needed to answer some questions here before folks began thinking I was frozen to the pond in my yard. ;-)

    Personally, I think the Ostmann would serve you better than the Hartmann. The Hartmann has proved to be a problem for some with waist measures at the 38" mark, causing them to go up in size just to get the waist comfortable. But I can also say that these were individuals with chest measures of 44" or so, thus going to a 46 or even a 48 did provide the larger, more forgiving waist area; since you would obviously need the 48 for your chest, the waist is already large enough that this may not be an issue for you in the style.

    Hmmm, ok, the more I think about it, you might be fine in the Hartmann, but I still maintain that the Ostmann would win in providing a fit that's more kind to big guys. That fact you have a 10" drop certainly favors the Ostmann, too, due to the fact the hip belts can be drawn significantly tighter than the Hartmann allows. My vote definitely favors the Ostmann, especially for those with a 10" drop, and even more so for guys my size.

    I do not like the Hartmann on me because I cannot get the waist tight enough in size 40 and the jacket length is longer than I like for my torso length, but if the waist could be made tighter, I think the length issue would fall away. I've tried a 38, but the chest/armhole area is just too tight; my ideal would be the torso length and waist measure of the size 38, but chest, sleeves, and shoulders of a 40. I tend to think I'm just that one set of measures that fails with the Hartmann. I realize that a 30" waist measure is more commonly encountered on guys with chest measures smaller than mine, thus they don't have a 10" drop and wouldn't have my issue in sizes 38 and smaller, and guys with, say, a 32" waist also usually aren't going to have a 10" drop and would be fine if their chest was 40".

    I've had to accept that there a few styles in jackets that just will never make me happy, and these really are few, and that buying suits off the rack will also never work. Fortunately, when it comes to the jackets we offer, I think the Hartmann may be the only style that doesn't work for me and I can't think of when we had a customer who couldn't be fitted for the same reasons.
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2018
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  18. bn1966

    bn1966 Call Me a Cab

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    I did take it to a motorcycle leathers 'tailoress' with a view to a light-weight lining, she advised against it on the grounds of the overall negative affect the work would have on the jacket. If ELC ever went down the lighter route with the 'Ostmann'..I'd be there..'almost perfect' :)
     
  19. HPA Rep

    HPA Rep Vendor

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    Right you are, willyto. Only the black Ostmann has the bright zippers. My own Luftwaffe style Gary made from brown goatskin (M-422A) with Hartmann pockets back in 1997 has the same bright zippers, but that's before he had the dull zippers and before this style was even offered in brown. I actually think I'd like the dull zips on my jacket, but then this is why they make both vanilla and chocolate ice cream, right?

    But as far as the design goes, I prefer on my body both the Ostmann and the old Luftwaffe design vs. Hartmann due to the Hartmann not being able to have the waist made tighter on me.
     
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  20. bn1966

    bn1966 Call Me a Cab

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    I find the Hartmann waist a bit loose on me in a 48...perfect in shoulders & chest though, loose waist also makes it feel slightly long for my torso too.

    A 46 wouldn't have give me enough 'upper room'. Considering a trip to 'Byson Leather' over here this year to discuss a 'slimmer waist' adjustment :) Totally love the jacket though & no problems if they can't 'slim it'.
     
    HPA Rep likes this.

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