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Five Star Leather vs Johnson Leather for Custom Jackets

Marc mndt

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I also think leather can be folded only to a certain extent so it’s the weight that matters but also the size of the box.
I would say 80x50x35cm should be large enough for any jacket.
F5E4EF36-0670-4213-A5C2-3B8493E23495.jpeg
 

Mich486

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I don’t know if a piece of leather suitable for a jacket before being cut could measure more than 80cm in length, maybe you are right but not obvious.

Is the above price including insurance? This is what I get from Royal Mail ( parcel 2kg tracked and insured up to £300)

0ADEBAA6-8041-4140-891E-3F140E77F459.jpeg
 

TheDonEffect

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You are absolutely not wrong about that, that's why I wouldn't order the premier run hide to five star.( At least in first time)
I am trying to argue the base price of JL is too high (only compare to 5 star), I think is from $600? As I mentioned in our conversation, there are many great hide with cheap price. The total price of 5star (use non-Horween hide) is still much cheaper than JL (naked cowhide and other regular hide).

Well, we established that the price difference is about $200 when using identical leather, again assuming $100 is the cost of remaining materials, labor, and shipping with 5*.

My choice of naked cow hide is a moot point, because now I am choosing CXL, and comparing it to a CXL 5* jacket, again, difference is 200 when we're already spending over 700. For that 200 I get an in person tailoring, that alone is well worth it, because I personally need it.
 

TheDonEffect

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170 does sound high, but not unreasonable. I sent a care package to my bro one time when he was in UAE, medium-ish size box, not heavy, it was 120. CA is probably the furthest point from Pakistan. Base price was like 70 or 80 bucks iirc to send anything that wouldn't fit in an envelope.

Which also begs the next question, my estimate of $100 to finish a jacket and ship it... When you factor in shipping even at a business rate, not a whole lot left for 5*.

This is usually the point where someone would chime in and say that labor that cheap can't be good. But I'd be the first to say that it is definitely possible, and alot of times better, just not in the US.

Btw, Hh121, I read through your heavy jacket thread, have you asked 5* if they're willing to take on the project?
 

Hh121

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170 does sound high, but not unreasonable. I sent a care package to my bro one time when he was in UAE, medium-ish size box, not heavy, it was 120. CA is probably the furthest point from Pakistan. Base price was like 70 or 80 bucks iirc to send anything that wouldn't fit in an envelope.

Which also begs the next question, my estimate of $100 to finish a jacket and ship it... When you factor in shipping even at a business rate, not a whole lot left for 5*.

This is usually the point where someone would chime in and say that labor that cheap can't be good. But I'd be the first to say that it is definitely possible, and alot of times better, just not in the US.

Btw, Hh121, I read through your heavy jacket thread, have you asked 5* if they're willing to take on the project?
He said he can do any thickness but I highly doubt it.
 

navetsea

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The labour costs for a jacket in Pakistan is likely to be around $20.
I don't know how far or close Pakistan in economy compared to indonesia, here the labor cost for my jacket is around $120, I tested last time bringing my own leather and lining, even the hardware, so the money I paid was purely labor cost (for a full custom jacket including making pattern and mockup) and several gauges of threads to sew them together.


I somehow think as long as you stick to "soft" leather all makers will give you a moment free stitching, as you amp up the leather with something unyielding then the more F moments happened unless the maker is familiar with these hide.
if they mainly work on soft chrometan then one time you ask them to work on plank like veg tan expect them to make mistake especially on custom project they never do practice run before on both the pattern and the hide.
 
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Marc mndt

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I don’t know if a piece of leather suitable for a jacket before being cut could measure more than 80cm in length, maybe you are right but not obvious.

Is the above price including insurance? This is what I get from Royal Mail ( parcel 2kg tracked and insured up to £300)

View attachment 283922
Mine is only insured for €200 and it can take up to 11 days to deliver so yours is faster and better insured.

But I don't think 2kg of leather is enough to make a jacket. Unless it's sheepskin but I think Hh121 will send something more substantial to Shawn :p
 

Marc mndt

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This is usually the point where someone would chime in and say that labor that cheap can't be good. But I'd be the first to say that it is definitely possible, and alot of times better, just not in the US.
I've looked it up, the average monthly salary in Pakistan is $500. Let's say they have to work 200 hours a month, that means they earn $2.5 an hour. So if they work 8 hours on one jacket, labor cost would be $20.

I think they can make a jacket in less than 8 hours so I think $20 is a fair estimate but it might even be less.
 

Marc mndt

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For that 200 I get an in person tailoring, that alone is well worth it, because I personally need it.
Plus you'll get a jacket that has resale value, which is important to take into account since most of us don't wear a jacket till its worn out.
 

MrProper

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Plus you'll get a jacket that has resale value, which is important to take into account since most of us don't wear a jacket till its worn out.

Resale value is certainly a good point. So I'm afraid it looks rather bad with 5 *. That may change in the future, but it is currently the case.
I personally have to write off my jackets immediately after buying them, regardless of the manufacturer, because with my special measurements they are more or less unsaleable.
 

Marc mndt

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Resale value is certainly a good point. So I'm afraid it looks rather bad with 5 *. That may change in the future, but it is currently the case.
I personally have to write off my jackets immediately after buying them, regardless of the manufacturer, because with my special measurements they are more or less unsaleable.
Big chest small waist?
 

TheDonEffect

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618
I've looked it up, the average monthly salary in Pakistan is $500. Let's say they have to work 200 hours a month, that means they earn $2.5 an hour. So if they work 8 hours on one jacket, labor cost would be $20.

I think they can make a jacket in less than 8 hours so I think $20 is a fair estimate but it might even be less.

Yeah they should be able to crank it out in about 4. That's some good analysis.
 

TheDonEffect

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618
Resale value is certainly a good point. So I'm afraid it looks rather bad with 5 *. That may change in the future, but it is currently the case.
I personally have to write off my jackets immediately after buying them, regardless of the manufacturer, because with my special measurements they are more or less unsaleable.

True, but JL also doesn't have the best resale value either, at least not yet, but I wouldn't factor it in. I mean a 5* may be a total right off, but was less than 400 to begin with, I think the depreciation hit on a custom JL will be comparable.

Although... A horween 5*... Hmm, point taken.
 

Seb Lucas

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Yeah they should be able to crank it out in about 4. That's some good analysis.

Yep, I said it was around $20 a jacket for the same reason but I also suspect it's less given the average wage of a sewing machine jockey there is probably less 'average' and the overall figure of $500 may be high.

Resale value is irrelevant to me. The key questions are does the jacket work and are you happy? I've sold a few but I mostly give my jackets away when I decide I don't want them - to friends or to a charity managed thrift shop.
 
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I've looked it up, the average monthly salary in Pakistan is $500. Let's say they have to work 200 hours a month, that means they earn $2.5 an hour. So if they work 8 hours on one jacket, labor cost would be $20.

I think they can make a jacket in less than 8 hours so I think $20 is a fair estimate but it might even be less.

Considering the most I've ever earned was 3.5$ per hour, this was one of those morning realizations I could do without... Why am I even on this forum? XD
 

navetsea

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yeah but you don't pay the labor cost as the labor's salary, you pay to the company owner that make profit on top, and also want to create an international price to be seen as decent product even when domestically probably they would sell even cheaper and the company has to pay the labors same wage whether they are busy or not. sometime we assume they do jacket everyday, but since some of you get their jacket extremely fast that only means they don't have so much load, and there must be days they have no jacket orders.
 

dannyk

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Considering the most I've ever earned was 3.5$ per hour, this was one of those morning realizations I could do without... Why am I even on this forum? XD
But that’s all relative. Where you live and the costs of living in a specific country/region matter the most. In the US if you earned 3.50 an hour you literally could not survive. Our costs are much more. Where you live if that’s average then you’re doing just fine. I make way, way more than 3.50 an hour and yet I’m working/ middle class in the US. I often ask myself why I’m on this forum with what I earn haha.
 
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navetsea

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I m thinking too, if you send a hide to them how much extra hide you calculate to send in case of mistake in production?, panel can be mistakenly cut , shit happens, I bet it could be very risky if you just calculate the size of your jacket usually take so much sq yard in maker A, doesn't always be the case with maker B who have different way of placing the panels on the hide, especially with custom order with design they never make before, in my last jacket order with a local company, since I supply my own hide, it turned out I needed to order extra 2 times since there was a mistake for the cuff, and they found out the shape of the hide is not enough to make the panel they plan to make. so I have to buy extra even when theoretically the sq yard was enough the first time I supplied them

and so I got plenty of remaining leather back in weird shapes they cant use, I can make a coin purse, key chain, etc from it.

and in worse case scenario if the end product is not to your satisfaction, what then, do you pay enough so the company who make it able to absorb here and there remake for some less forgiving clients, if you source the hide, do you have to send them a new hide again do you expect the company to reimburse your loss in material and shipping cost?

I think the business model they're taking is quite risky especially in that price range, probably people here are familiar enough with leather and workmanship and price point to be understanding, but imagine if someone never buy a leather jacket before and have unrealistic expectation and they are given the freedom to design stuff and put measurement on it, imagine the risk, some people will panic seeing the seam of the jacket seems to "rip" open or if they only have seen leather dyed through, they might see a overdye as a bad leather, etc. and first time leather jacket buyer would obviously see their price as an expensive price making comparison to mall jacket price not realizing it is a custom jacket that should be seen differently.
 

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