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German & Austrian Hutmachers

le.gentleman

Familiar Face
Messages
75
Location
Minneapolis, MN
Here is a Rockel Exclusive and the company Rockel Co from Alsfeld is not around anymore, so we can't just ask the company ... :(.

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le.gentleman

Familiar Face
Messages
75
Location
Minneapolis, MN
mayserwegener said:
Very classy! The liner looks similar to the Homburg Exclusiv I just posted. What does it say under Hückel? Is the liner sewn in and does it have a plastic protector behind the sweat? Also a paper label with any info?

It says Hückel - period. The liner is sewn in and on the inside behind the liner in the back there is a size tag in 59...
 
Messages
16,503
Location
Maryland
le.gentleman said:
Mayser is still producing hats, that's why I sent them an email with a few questions yesterday - we'll see when I hear back from them. Of course I also look forward to what the hat museum has to say about Hückel hats.
mayserwegener - you were lucky to get the Hückel in superior quality for a bargain - well done!

Mayser has to have a great deal of information. I would be interested to know if they are still producing felt and if not when did they stop. Also are they still producing hats in Germany.

I received more information from the Nový Jičín museum but in my opinion it just opens more questions.

"Hello,

(I asked them about my Superior. I am not sure this answer is correct. Just by the feel of the felt (very dense) it could have beaver in the mix.)

1. your hat was produced from the rabbit coat. Rabbit and hare coat is the primary component for making of hats in Nový Jičín.

(I asked how to determine TONAK vs. Weilheim. Just opens more questions.)

2. Tonak and Weilheim produced hats with Hückel trade mark. They had cause with this trade mark, and I know, that Tonak bought this mark in fifties or sixties from Hückel family. Your first example of hat was produced in Hückel family company in Weilheim. I must say that Tonak produce hats with Hückel trade mark too still now.

(I asked about my Exclusiv and your second Hückel. Only appears to have addressed my Exclusiv.)

3. Your next pictures are beautiful. You have great example of Hückel production. This hat is from old collection, but he looks youthful. Oh. I think that it is prewar collection, Tonak company don´t like any of the success of Hückel´s production before 1989. You must compare a styl of hat, this type is worn before WW II – but !!! May be that Tonak produced for non-European consumers a collection of hats, which was marked old Hückel attributes. But the box for hat is old type, yes, I must say that it is hat from pre-war collection.

(I asked about felt content of different models.)

4. About felt content for named types of models – it is problem. They are old models of Hückel and content was protected by producer. May be any one from Tonak you can tell you about this. If you visit our city you can order in Tonak and you can see a production of hats today. We have very good relations with Tonak leadership.

(I asked about the museum hat collection and Hückel exhibition.)

About our exhibition. We have a great exhibition of hats in our Žerotin castle in Nový Jičín. This exhibition presents about 600 hats from 1800-2009. So for the 9/4 2009 we will prepare a new exhibition of old photographic collection of Hückel from 1910 (today is 100 years old and wasn´t presented till now). Part of this will be a presentation of military and service hats from the collection of five museums in our country, I think about 200 types. The exhibition will be presented to the February 2010.

(I asked about Dreispitz's Super Sport and Mercur.)

They are from old pre-war Hückel production. Super sport was made from long type of hair from rabbit – hats was called velours. It was special product of Hückel, self invention. Erich Ladewig was dealer of Hückel products as many others. Two years ago we bought complete hut work-room from the city Polička. This manufacture bought a ovenware from Nový Jičín (Hückel, Böhm) and completed a style of hats."

My Hückel Superior (my profile picture) is not that difficult because of it's style and label "made in Germany" (there is a small window 1938-45) but the others are sketchy because of lack of information (stamp of origin). To me my Hückel Exclusiv construction looks post WWII but the Nový Jičín museum and Dreispitz (based on no record of the Stattmann hat store post WWII) believe otherwise. The Nový Jičín museum believes both of Dreispitz's hats are pre WWII. They seemed to have skipped over your hat so I asked again. It might be worth checking with TONAK too just to see what they have to say but they might not want to reveal. From what I found Fritz Hückel died in 1973 and Hückel operations in Germany stopped in 1975. I was able to find that one label that had "Hutfabrik Weilheim" stamped on it. Did all hats made there have this stamp? Was TONAK making Hückel hats from 1950s to 1975 for specific for export markets (the person at the Nový Jičín museum raises this question) possibly through some relationship with Fritz Hückel (this is just my conjecture but it is strange there is no stamp of origin on these hats)?
 

Dreispitz

One Too Many
Messages
1,164
Wow, that is some information! Cool! :eusa_clap :eusa_clap :eusa_clap

So, the Super Sport velour is then similar to the velour that is still used in Regensburg. No Beaver, but hare felt.
 

le.gentleman

Familiar Face
Messages
75
Location
Minneapolis, MN
Thanks for the information!

Maybe I should send them an email as well...

As far as I know, Beaver was not used for top notch hats in Europe. Hats (Haarhüte) were exclusively made out of hair of cottonmouth / wild rabbit (Wildkaninchen), soft baby rabbit (Zahmkaninchen) and rabbit (Hasen).

However, there were lots of different qualities: e.g. the Thuringian rabbit and scottish wild rabbit/cottonmouth were considered to be among the best raw materials whereas soft baby rabbit from France and Italy where the second best.
In addition to that, there were lots of other rabbit breeds which were also highly sought after.
Moreover, not just the rabbit breed itself but also the location (belly, back, tip...) played an important role in hat making. Of course it is all about the blend.


On the other hand, the top notch hat in the US were made out of Beaver fur, funny isn't it...

According to my information, the "Verband für Woll- und Haarhutindustrie e.V." which was location in Frankfurt Main has made a movie comprehensive movie about hatmaking begining with the way hats were made until 1850 until 1950s.
Unfortunately, this organization has ceased to exist a long time ago. However, there might be a chance that Mayser knows where to find that movie. Besides, one could look for it at the German national movie archive...I am sure that would require some work though.
 

Mario

I'll Lock Up
Messages
4,664
Location
Little Istanbul, Berlin, Germany
I believe that Nutria was used here in Germany as well. The Nutria was never a native species in Germany, but over the years, a lot of the animals fled from the farms (especially those destroyed during the war), and by now we have quite a large population roaming about in the wilderness. They have effectively become part of the local fauna. I just returned home from a music festival at the Saale (a river in the east of Germany), and the Nutrias here have been a great attraction to the visitors of the festival for many years. You can sometimes even hand-feed the little critters. Well, they're not so little... Actually, they can grow impressively large...with those HUGE teeth! :eek:
 

Dreispitz

One Too Many
Messages
1,164
We start getting into the geek specs of the matter! I like it! :)

By the way, I did ask Mayser about their felt production. They do not make their own felts, anymore.
 

Dreispitz

One Too Many
Messages
1,164
Here is a part of a recent documentary on a German hatter. He even makes the felt for each hat traditionally on his own!

[YOUTUBE]<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/21j-GanwwDA&hl=de&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/21j-GanwwDA&hl=de&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>[/YOUTUBE]
 

Brad Bowers

I'll Lock Up
Messages
4,187
Wow, that's as old school as you can get!

My heart skipped a beat or two when they first showed a hood, because it sure looked to me like it had a Cavanagh Edge sewn into it. Easily possible if you make your own felt. What's the scoop on this hutmacher?

Brad
 

Dreispitz

One Too Many
Messages
1,164
Brad Bowers said:
Wow, that's as old school as you can get!

My heart skipped a beat or two when they first showed a hood, because it sure looked to me like it had a Cavanagh Edge sewn into it. Easily possible if you make your own felt. What's the scoop on this hutmacher?

Brad

I will try and find out more of him. Since it is a recent production, he might still be working. His dialect sounds Bavarian/Tyrolian. I will see, if I can trace him.
 

Brad Bowers

I'll Lock Up
Messages
4,187
Thanks, Dreispitz.

Check out the edge of the hood across his arm. It's probably nothing, but you never know...

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Brad
 
Messages
16,503
Location
Maryland
le.gentleman said:
Thanks for the information!

Maybe I should send them an email as well...

As far as I know, Beaver was not used for top notch hats in Europe. Hats (Haarhüte) were exclusively made out of hair of cottonmouth / wild rabbit (Wildkaninchen), soft baby rabbit (Zahmkaninchen) and rabbit (Hasen).

However, there were lots of different qualities: e.g. the Thuringian rabbit and scottish wild rabbit/cottonmouth were considered to be among the best raw materials whereas soft baby rabbit from France and Italy where the second best.
In addition to that, there were lots of other rabbit breeds which were also highly sought after.
Moreover, not just the rabbit breed itself but also the location (belly, back, tip...) played an important role in hat making. Of course it is all about the blend.

I know rabbit and hare are pretty much the rule but if you look at the Hückel logo there is a rabbit or hare and a beaver or nutria. The felt on my Superior is so dense it most likely has some (imported) beaver or nutria added. I am positive this hat cost some serious money back in the day. Then again it could be 100% rabbit/hare. :)

This is another new old stock Wegener I am getting from a friend. Supposedly the felt is rabbit/hare with some beaver.

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Messages
16,503
Location
Maryland
Dreispitz said:
Wow, that is some information! Cool! :eusa_clap :eusa_clap :eusa_clap

So, the Super Sport velour is then similar to the velour that is still used in Regensburg. No Beaver, but hare felt.

I don't think this person really knows much about the felt content. He seems more up on the historical date stuff. My feeling is the Super Sport is some type of VERY exotic hare but I am thinking the Superior, Mercur and Exclusiv might have some beaver or nutria content. I am pretty positive about my Superior. Probably the people at TONAK would have a better idea. I will ask the museum for a TONAK contact.
 

Dreispitz

One Too Many
Messages
1,164
mayserwegener said:
I don't think this person really knows much about the felt content. He seems more up on the historical date stuff. My feeling is the Super Sport is some type of VERY exotic hare but I am thinking the Superior, Mercur and Exclusiv might have some beaver or nutria content. I am pretty positive about my Superior. Probably the people at TONAK would have a better idea. I will ask the museum for a TONAK contact.

In the 19c one of the important imports from the "New World" into Europe was beaver fur! Guess for what purpose lol
 

Dreispitz

One Too Many
Messages
1,164
mayserwegener said:
Amazing find! You need to track this guy down!

Found him:

Kiniger Gottfried
Hut- und Filzerzeugung (hatter and feltmaker)
9920 Sillian 109
Austria
0043/(0)4842/6465


Called up the cameraman the documentary is to be found at: www.handwerksfilme.de (Der Hutmacher)

The film was done five years, ago. These films are ment to document the very last of their professions. Here is the English version: www.old-world-crafts.com
 

le.gentleman

Familiar Face
Messages
75
Location
Minneapolis, MN
Well done!

Here is an article about him: http://www.rmo.at/osttirolkomm/default.asp?ID=238

and he also seems to have internet connection!

Kiniger Gottfried jun.

Nr. 109
9920 Sillian
Telefon +43 4842 5330
Fax +43 4842 6465
Email info@k-line.at



Dreispitz said:
Found him:

Kiniger Gottfried
Hut- und Filzerzeugung (hatter and feltmaker)
9920 Sillian 109
Austria
04842/6465


Called up the cameraman the documentary is to be found at: www.handwerksfilme.de (Der Hutmacher)

The film was done five years, ago.
 

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