Hat history question

[dnjan]

When did hatmakers start making flexible brim (snap brim) Homburgs? (instead of the rigid brims common to Tophats, Bowlers, and original Homburgs)

Also, if the brim was snapped down in front, was it still a Homburg?

 

[Art Fawcett]

Welcome to the Lounge Dnjan
I'm a bit confused by your question because the first soft Homburg I believe was made in the 1890's and exhibited at the Paris World's Fair, however, there is no such thing as a "snap brim" homburg. There is only Snap brim Fedora, or Homburg. By it's construction the homburg cannot snap.

 

[dnjan]

Thanks for the clarification. So a short-brimmed hat with a plain top crease and no pinch or side dents that has a soft-brim is a fedora? While the same, exact shape with a rigid brim is a homburg?

Perhaps my question then, should have been: When did hatmakers start making soft-brimmed hats?

Thanks,

 

[Feraud]

Soft brimmed hats were in use during the US Civil War. They were called "slouch hats".

 

[Baron Kurtz]

soft brimmed hats, one would imagine, are as old as the hat . . . Certainly the examples i've seen from the C16th-17th are mostly soft felts. Somtimes with very wide brims.

bk

 

[dnjan]

Perhaps my question then, should have been: When did hatmakers start making soft-brimmed hats?

Thanks,

third try's the charm:
When did hatmakers start making soft-brimmed dress hats? (after the initial tophat, derby popularity)

 

[Baron Kurtz]

you're talking modern era dress hats, right? 20th century style fedoras?

Head coverings are centuries old. The hard top hats and bowlers were popular in the C18th. Before that, they were generally soft from what i've seen. And i don't think the soft hats ever went away.

bk

 

[dnjan]

What were some of the popular "dress" hats (not everyday work hats) from the 1800's and earlier 1900's that had soft brims?

(or maybe I am asking what did the fedoras before the '20s look like)

 

[scotrace]

Good question.

See some of the gentleman's hats from The Age of Innocence.

My grandfather, about 1920.

 

[Dinerman]

here's a '20s fedora I have sold by "the Finchley Establishment"

 

[dnjan]

See some of the gentleman's hats from The Age of Innocence.

Thanks! I hated history as a kid, because I couldn't find anything to be interested in. Now, however, I really enjoy the historical aspects of things.

Question - Is that hat historically accurate, or have some licenses been taken? I hadn't realized that (what appear to me as) rigid-brim hats were given pinches. I've never seen that before.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

Homburgs are often pinched ('specially in America, i find).

A very famous image of the same era:

bk

 

[dnjan]

Thanks!

And thanks for everybody's patience with educating a newcomer!

 

[Topper]

When did hatmakers start making soft-brimmed hats?

Over 2500 years ago such as the "Petasus" in Greece.

Pip-Pip
Doug

 

[Topper]

There is some "cross-breeding" in history between the styles. There was even a Bowler which has a flat brim with a gutter under curl ( i.e. it was curled underneath the brim! rather that up over the brim).

For modern picture movies they are do not always use the same historic accurate manufacturing methods and thus you would will have a soft felt brim that has been stiffened ( sometimes using millinery techniques and wire) and not necessarily a traditional hard brim ( hard to me means a rigid brim, with a covering of material).

That being said - the style can be accurate, just the making method different - there again, People are known to take "artistic" licence - so in the end it is a modern replica as to the autenticity ? - that is another story.

It all depends on what you mean "hard" the Canadian Mountie hat is a felt
brim and rigid - But do you call it hard?...

Also toppers and bowlers are made in two differnent ways depending on if the are felt or rigid shell - so the whole question is erronous, if talking about hard rigid brims. Even within Rigid Toppers there are many ways of finishing the brim, and the edge.

As Art mentioned, the homburg is not traditionally a snap brim, which can be used on trilby/fedora/panama style.

As to if Homburgs can be snapped - well, depends on what you want! If you change the brim style by have a crown with a homburg crease, then it isnt a "pure" homburg any more - but is it ! but with a different brim style. - The same was you can take trilby and re block the crown like a homburg with a lot of effort. Though would consider whether binding on the edge would be off-set or not.

With hats the "Crown" is the descriptive part of the hat - the Birm varies with style. So you can make a homburg with a snap brim, but would be a soft or stiffened felt, doubt would be a rigid hat.

I would hardly call it a "formal" hat anymore if you snapped the brim.... far too trendy

 

[Pilgrim]

The hat identified by the term "Fedora" has been around at least since the 1880's. This is evident by the origin of the term fedora, commonly traced to the 1882 play Fedora, by Victorien Sardou. The play's title was adopted to describe the style of hat worn by the heroine, Sarah Bernhardt. (I linked to Wikipedia, but I've pieced together this background from a number of sources.)

So if what you're looking for is a date for the emergence of that style of dress hat, the 1880's would be a notable decade.

 

[dnjan]

Thanks for the education!

 

[bolthead]

This is a very cool hat, what do they call it?

 

[Topper]

Unsure, But I am doing a similar design basically it is a hard shell bowler hat, but the crown reblocked in the shape of a Trilby crown ( Trilbys are short brimmed Fedora) .

I am calling mine the the "Trilbowler" pronounced (Trilby-ola) That's my name for it by my company Though happy for it to be a universal name with royalties

I do not think there is one standard name for it. A similar style was done by a hatter in the UK last centruy called "The Premier" by Denham

Pip-Pip

Doug

 

[Topper]

Also note the different eras, the film aiming for late 1800 early 1900 (guess) the Premier hat is probably fashion 1950-1960ies.