I've seen how Horween do this. It's literally two guys with wide brushes painting the stuff on. It goes through multiple coats to get the necessary depth of colour, but they can turn almost any hide a different colour from its base. I was shown one beautiful chestnut hide intended for a shoe that was butter yellow on the underside. I think the coating fastness is a chemically controlled thing.
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Horween Chromexel Steer not dyed all the way through
- Thread starter FredS
- Start date
sshack
A-List Customer
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- California
The grain showing up is normal (and to me, desirable). But that color fading-- not so much.
Paul Borger
New in Town
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First time on here guys, I just ordered a black highwayman and noticed on the fit jacket that the FQHH did "scuff" a little easier than I expected, but I think it is due to this... from Horween's website,
"The next step is “hot stuffing” – that is, the impregnation of the hides with oils, waxes, and greases that are solid at room temperature. Stuffing is achieved through the use of steamed mills, and is the process that is responsible for the “pull-up” of this leather. Pull-up is the temporary displacement of these oil and wax blends that cause a lightening of the leather."
If you really want it black you could add some Pecard's but I think that is the way chrome tanned works. I originally wanted dark black forever but chrome tanned has a cool patina.
This page seemed to show the the changes on a belt and the bottom of a black bag.( half way down the page). http://horween.com/101/chromexcel-2/
Hope to get my new jacket in February and can't wait to see it.
"The next step is “hot stuffing” – that is, the impregnation of the hides with oils, waxes, and greases that are solid at room temperature. Stuffing is achieved through the use of steamed mills, and is the process that is responsible for the “pull-up” of this leather. Pull-up is the temporary displacement of these oil and wax blends that cause a lightening of the leather."
If you really want it black you could add some Pecard's but I think that is the way chrome tanned works. I originally wanted dark black forever but chrome tanned has a cool patina.
This page seemed to show the the changes on a belt and the bottom of a black bag.( half way down the page). http://horween.com/101/chromexcel-2/
Hope to get my new jacket in February and can't wait to see it.
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Enjoy your Highwayman, and welcome to the Lounge. PC.
+1
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Anyone know what these are? Look interesting for this time of year...
Dr H
Call Me a Cab
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Anyone know what these are? Look interesting for this time of year...
Indeed, ho, ho, ho... ;-)
Dav
One Too Many
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They're made by Visvim.
http://blog.liganova.com/visvim-decoy-duck-mid-folk/
http://blog.liganova.com/visvim-decoy-duck-mid-folk/
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Thanks,Dav. Crazy prices those folks charge.
There is a "current " trend for leather ( Horween CXL .. especially in the Matte finish) to show lighter leather when creased ( folded) ..... this is a "style" thing based on the finish treatment rather than a historical thing.
If I look at old jackets made from CXL in the 90's and early 00's the surface finish was almost like a paint and laquer which dulled down with time ( a fewe years) to an almost satin finish which was VERY durable. These were NOT "struck through" ( dyed all the way through through dipping and soaking the leather in colourant) but top coated in leather dye and surface finish. When you folded or creased this leather there was no change in the surface colour.
If I look at samples of CXL ( horse and steer) from recent times if you fold and crease it then the lighter basecoat shows through and when you uncrease it it goes back ( almost) to the original colour. This appeasrs to be a fundamental change in the surface finish .... not sure if it's a move to water based dyes or a change in the finishing process as a whole ..... but it is a change.
Just MHO
If I look at old jackets made from CXL in the 90's and early 00's the surface finish was almost like a paint and laquer which dulled down with time ( a fewe years) to an almost satin finish which was VERY durable. These were NOT "struck through" ( dyed all the way through through dipping and soaking the leather in colourant) but top coated in leather dye and surface finish. When you folded or creased this leather there was no change in the surface colour.
If I look at samples of CXL ( horse and steer) from recent times if you fold and crease it then the lighter basecoat shows through and when you uncrease it it goes back ( almost) to the original colour. This appeasrs to be a fundamental change in the surface finish .... not sure if it's a move to water based dyes or a change in the finishing process as a whole ..... but it is a change.
Just MHO
In doing research on possible leathers for an upcoming jacket purchase, I've accrued numerous samples of horsehide and steerhide. The Horween CXL HH looks great at first glance, but after bending and folding and scraping it (and noticing the color loss) I'm not so sure. Ditto the CXL steer.
I know samples don't tell the whole story of how a jacket will actually break in over time, but the sample's color fade and quick lightening of the finish has me re-thinking CXL HH as a possible choice. I may just go with the more tried-and-true jerky seal HH.
That's the fun part of thoroughly planning a jacket purchase: doing the "homework" and researching manufacturers and leather types. TFL is the perfect resource for that and I'm very appreciative of all the posters who chime in with their experiences and opinions.
I know samples don't tell the whole story of how a jacket will actually break in over time, but the sample's color fade and quick lightening of the finish has me re-thinking CXL HH as a possible choice. I may just go with the more tried-and-true jerky seal HH.
That's the fun part of thoroughly planning a jacket purchase: doing the "homework" and researching manufacturers and leather types. TFL is the perfect resource for that and I'm very appreciative of all the posters who chime in with their experiences and opinions.
Okay, so here's some pics.
I'd like to make it clear:
I'm not blaming Aero in anyway. I'm sure there are fluctuations in leather (being an organic product). This is simply to show that variations exist.
Hopefully, this will help anyone considering a black FQHH CXL jacket.
Again, I don't mind the color fade, but I wish it happened 4 years from now, instead of a few months of very light wear. 5 years from now (which is early in the life cycle), will there be any color left at all???
Here's my jacket. The dye has rubbed off the shoulders. No scratches, just color fade.
I lost track of what happened with this. I understand you eventually received a new jacket, but weren't there some headaches along the way? Also, what sort of use or rubbing had occured that caused the color loss?
sshack
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I have a new jacket, Holly and the Aero team were very fair and made me a new replacement with a new batch of black CXL. I'm wearing the jacket for a week or two before I post a detailed review. I thought initially that the leather felt much different from my original jacket and the dye appears to be more stable, but let's see how it looks after a bit of gentle wearing.
What caused the color loss initially? Just wearing it around the house (I got it during the summer), and a handful of times outdoors at night.
What caused the color loss initially? Just wearing it around the house (I got it during the summer), and a handful of times outdoors at night.
Look at the photos of my Chips jacket at post #215. Same thing happened to my jacket, not after years, but after a few weeks of very light wear. I bought a half belt two months earlier, same black FQHH, and the leather is beautiful. The Chips jacket not only lost color on contact edges, the leather was dull and sort of lifeless looking. My half belt is the opposite. My Chips jacket got to Aero for evaluation before the Christmas break and I have not heard yet what they are going to do.
Blackadder
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It does seem that edges are the first to go which makes sense for long term wear. Looking at sshack's photo, you can see that not only the shoulder (which is more serious), the collar is also fading. While the fading in the shoulder area could have come from excessive rubbing with seat belts, straps of bags etc, I wonder what would cause the collar to fade like that in a few months, rubbing against one's chin or rubbing against other clothing in the closet or hanging a jacket at the back of a chair then sat on it?
