Lost and Confused in Panama

[Panamabob]

What questions are left unanswered?

 

[Mike Hammered]

What questions are left unanswered?

PB,

1.) Is the close-up weave shot provided by Tom representative of what I can expect from an Espinal Fino?

2.) What is the agenda you mentioned earlier in the thread? (This may have little to do with the hat proper; but there have been references here and elsewhere to less than clean business practices, so it touches on social responsibility. Therefore, I'm interested.)

These two for now.

Thanks,

Mike

 

[Panamabob]

1) Each hat is unique. I'm not sure which hat that is a close-up shot of.

2) I'll retract my words cautiously.

My thoughts from a few years ago.

http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?t=4862&highlight=espinal

Unchanged.

I'll be around Thanksgiving, so maybe the big Kahuna and I can break bread and find common ground.

 

[Mike Hammered]

1) Each hat is unique. I'm not sure which hat that is a close-up shot of.

PB,

Thanks for your response.

You answered my most important question, the question that inspired this thread.

Mike

 

[HungaryTom]

Any trace of the Panama

I have been imposed to post photos - which I did.

Can I kindly ask to see the 800 dollars Brent Black hat?

Best Regards:

Tom

 

[MD11]

Tom, I think you wanted to see this?

 

[HungaryTom]

Absolutely magnificient

MD,

Thanks for posting.


Tom

 

[Ande1964]

Nice!

I agree with Tom. That is a stunner.

Anj

 

[Panamabob]

It is a beautiful hat! May I have a shot of the weave with a ruler running along it, so that I may count it?

 

[MD11]

It is a beautiful hat! May I have a shot of the weave with a ruler running along it, so that I may count it?

Sure Bob, I was actually hoping someone would do that.. My eyes are going crazy trying to do it. I took a photo in two different parts.. in case one turns out better here. Would love your professional assessment.

Sam

 

[Panamabob]

I'd say in the 900 neighborhood. Not too shabby. The next time I have a similar hat, similar being the key word, with the SAME initials, I'll post it up.

 

[MD11]

I'd say in the 900 neighborhood. Not too shabby. The next time I have a similar hat, similar being the key word, with the SAME initials, I'll post it up.

thanks Bob, I had been told about 30 weaves/inch or more, so I suppose it's ok. .. when finances line up for it, I'll try one from you.. in due time.

Sam

 

[le.gentleman]

Dear Panama Bob,

Thanks so much for all the first hand information you are willing to share with us.

I found a great documntary on youtube about the Panama head which is split up into 3 youtube videos. At the end of the first video and at the beginning of the second video, they visit the Espinal family and talk to Simon Espinal.
You can see under which poor conditions they live there - the house dark a shabby, the whole town of Pile looks awful...

When Simon is asked whether it's hard to give away the hat, he has worked on for so long he replies that of course it's hard, and it would be nice to keep a hat as a memento and to feel proud of his work but he says sadly he can't because otherwise they wouldn't have enough to live.
They even talk about how much money he earns... watch it yourself.

This documentary confirms everything Panamabob told us so far!

The videos were added on Dec 23 /24 2007. Hence, I assume they are not too old.

To me, this is clear evidence that Simon Espinal does not earn 40% of the selling price. In the documentary they say 10 % or less...
And sponsoring the local soccer team with jerseys and equipment might be a nice gesture - http://www.flickr.com/photos/laurelfactorial/2297618944/ nothing more.

Here are the links:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rp8bg451EQo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQZ4DoIdSwA&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVm_ZbKVnTk&feature=related

And finally a very thought of me - wouldn't it be great if some private investor who is passionate about hats would go there and invest in a Panama weaving school, trying to teach the young people the art of weaving while at the same time providing them with food and education? The investor could even establish a kind of fair trade price for Panama hats (it's done with coffee or cocoa, so why not with Panama hats?)

Yeah, I'm all but finished here. The rich get richer, and the Montecristi industry dies.

$24K my eye. I'll be earning less than that myself in Ecuador. You have no idea.

Here's a photo or two of a couple of the houses we are looking at near Quito: Compare these to Don Alarcon's and Don Simon's, and remember, I'll be making much less money, supposedly, than either.

Again, anyone, and I mean anyone, is welcomed to come to Ecuador and I'll take you to buy a hat and allow you to ask any question you'd like. Also, feel free to email or call Daniel, the guy making the film, and ask his opinion, too. He's been there, done that as well...with all of the top players mentioned or unmentioned.



Now, I see Mike has added below the lead-in for the, "but of course, the money goes to the Montecristi Foundation." Ignorance is bliss. I'll take lots of photos of the riches in Montecristi and report weekly on the new found wealth.

Now, I'm finished here.

 

[Neil]

Questions answered

Everything on this thread was helpful.
I've invested $400 in a Panama Bob hat.
I look forward to it with great anticipation.
Brent Black's hat looks pretty nice, too.

 

[steppenwolph]

awesome discussion

My knowledge and understanding of the Panama hat has gone from zero to sixty in nothing flat. But this type of situation is repeated in many different ways all over the world; artisans in a poorer country get paid subsistence wages for their work while distributors and end retailers in richer countries do well. I buy something called 'Fair Trade' coffee, which attempts to give coffee growers a better deal, and at the same time, ensure a continued supply of well grown coffee. One can debate how well this is accomplished, but something similar might be helpful in this situation as well. Hat weavers would get a better standard of living and hat wearers would be assured of a continuing supply of fine hats.

 

[Carlisle Blues]

My question appears to be timely. I am considering a Monticristi. My prioirites are: Price, where that money is going I.E. whether in the pocket of the middleman; soley, or whether a reasonable share is being sent back to the artist and their community.

I am usually able to do a great deal of research before I am comfortable enough to make an informed and comfortable decision. On one hand all I have to do is spend $25,000 and I can have a rare treasure on the other hand I can spend a great deal less and have that same quality Moniticristi.

My life's experience has shown me that there is a balance. Don't want to pay for fluff, advertising, self aggrandizement and someone's buying junkets to Ecuador.

I truly admire and have a passion for the work of art known as the Monticristi Panama. As a musical artist I have a great deal of compassion for the financial dealing the weaver is faced with. Therefore while I am chasing the weave I expect that the weaver will be compensated.


I hope to receive some input on which Panama hat dealer my fellow posters would recommend.

PS If I had the $25,000 I spend it on a guitar, a hat and my own trip to Ecuador.

 

[Neil]

Balance

A lot of money, $500 on up, buys you a fine, somewhat floppy hat. Two hundred, though, can buy you a nice firm, snappy, crisp hat.
I've yet to make up my mind which is best.
Nice choice, though.

 

[Panamabob]

The floppiness is in the hands of the man who is putting in the stiffener, not the tightness of the weave/price.

 

[Neil]

Okay

I stand corrected by the man himself. I thought that the finer the weave, the floppier.

 

[Panamabob]

The finer the weave (width of the paja strands), probably the floppier the hat left naturally, but it is the hatter who decides how much stiffener he's putting into his blocked hats. I remember hearing of a hatter that doesn't use stiffener. I was wondering until I saw an Aerosmith concert and the lead singer wearing one of his hats. That Mr. Tyler was jumping around like an animal and that extra long brim didn't move. = Stiffener!