Need help finding the "right" B-3 jacket

[Zepticon]

Hello ladies and gentlemen.
I have lately been searching the web, looking for info about the famous USAAF B-3 jacket. The reason for the choise, is because i find it both stylish and hopefully functional.
When trying to gather info, this forum have been a place that seems to generate many hits in all my searches, so i decided i could just register, and ask for help. I have tried other more fashion related forums, but it seems the current generation does not know much about this jacket, at all. I want a functional and cool winter jacket, that will keep me warm down in the 0 farenheit temperatures we get here in norway.

From what i understand, there are several levels of "correctness" in the jackets that are for sale. I have figured out that Eastman are one of the most authentic replicas, and also one of the most expensive. Then you have Aero Leather as the runner up. But that is also where my newfound knowlege ends. At the moment, i am not looking to spend the 750GBP / 1200USD that they want for their B-3 replica, but i rather want a used/entry level jacket, with as much authentic look as possible. Like the small outer map pocket instead of the double inner pockets found on many replicas.

This is more or less thea ideal look:

I also cant seem to figure out what the different color options are. I am not a native english speaker, so i can only use google to get an idea, but googling leather names does not give me much. I want the darkest type, that i seem to have identified as Seal-brown?

So, my current budget is somewhere around half of that, give or take some depending on what i find. If it is a used Eastman with the right colors, i can go up some.

I am using e-bay at the moment, and was hoping to find something nice there.

The current manufacturers i have found that seem to be serious and quality are:
Eastman
Aero
Avirex /cockpit
Schott

How would you rate them in terms of quality/price/authenticity? Are there others i have overlooked? How do you suggest i search for the jacket, and what would you recomend me to buy as a first timer? I have never owned any leahter clothing before, but i wanted to swap out my goose down jacket, since i have learned that the animals in the buisnes sare suffering a lot. So i hope someone can help me

 

[Foster]

Eastman makes a great B-3 jacket. I've not seen an Aero one but I think they are also good quality. There are probably more used Eastman jackets out there than Aero. I avoid the ones with the wrong pockets. What size do you wear?

 

[Worf]

US Authentic makes one that's not too bad. And Alexander Leathers in Scotland makes one as well. Add them to your list. Though with duty from the U.S. you might want to pass on the US made ones.

Worf

 

[archbury918]

As for jacket construction, its all about the quality of the sheepskin used. The shearling should be at least 3/4 inch in thickness. Horse hide is used for the reinforcement on sleeves and connective facings.

I currently have B-3's from Aero (6yrs old); Eastman (20, 4yrs old); Lost Worlds (10yrs); RMNZ (2yrs). I've also had lesser B-3's from Avirex, Willis&Geiger.
The Aero has the most contrast of Russet horse/ Seal body. The rest are relatively mono in the seal coloring. All are "house" jackets and not specific contracts.
I love each jacket for it's own character. I live on the Great Lakes in Wisconsin. For warmth, they beat anything I have purchased (Columbia, LL Bean, JCrew, JPowell,etc) up to, and including my Army issue. Frankly, they are too warm for anything above 30 degrees F for me.
My critical take on the Aero is the waist and collar straps. Too light for my liking and authenticity. I've had them replaced.
The LW is damn near bullet proof. Very thick and heavy. Best for long hours outdoors. HH on arms barely creased after all these years.
The RMNZ is overall a lovely jacket but not worth the retail price new.
The Eastman is a good value and as stated, more plentiful in the resale market.
My favorite is my 20yr old Eastman. mainly because it was made when these jackets weren't mass made and the tannery used is of such quality, it would make it prohibitive cost wise to use for standard jackets.
I'm saving for the ELC Perry. That'll be my next and likely last B-3. A gorgeous jacket.
Every jacket has to be evaluated by experience in my opinion. You will discover you truly get what you pay for.
Aero is currently having a shearling sale, but they are going very quickly..
My advice is to find a specific jacket for purchase opinions. The best buys are always 'off-season' as well.

Happy hunting!

 

[Zepticon]

Thanks for the helpfull replies! I really appreciate all the help i can get. Foster, you asked about my size, and that is one of the biggest concerns i have about buying something that expensive without beeing able to test fit it first. Also, knowing next to nothing about the jacket, and never having seen them outside the movies, it is hard to get an idea about how the fitment is. I havent done my own meassurements yet, because i have never needed to know them. But i will take a look at the charts on the different stores and get the numbers.

The things i am concerned about is the length of the jacket, since it seems very short compared to what i am used to. Also, i am unsure how much clothing i should expect to user under it, when the temp get close to 15F. Any input on that?

Worf, the duty on import to Norway is 25% of purchase price+shipping. That is why i am taking my time and planing this. If i find the right one, i can probably have someone bring it here when they are traveling. The firm i am working with has offices in NYC, so there are people flying back and forth every other month, so i guess something can be arranged. I will be adding the brands to the list and do some more reaseach on them.

The "shearling" is the wool on the inside of the jacket if i am correct? It is nice to get some input from a serial owner of the jackets! You also bring in an aspect i didnt think of, and that is having the "wrong parts" remade by a leatherworker. I will consider that if i find a good priced jacket with the lacking details. And yes, i agree on the collar and waist straps. Judging from the pictures, i like the ones with solid leather better. I see you mention "contracts". My understanding is that the "contract" jackets are replicas of spesific production series? Perry beeing one of them? And that the "house jackets" are some kind of "if we had a contract on the jacket, this is how it would be made" thing?

A 20 year old jacket still being the favorite? If that is the expected lifetime of the Eastman jackets, then the $1200 is not that much, seeing as my current use seems to be at about 200USD woth of jackets every year. That would bring a long lasting jacket on the plus side pretty quick. How does the quality hold up for it? Has it been used often, or just at special occasions. I will probably use mine as the main jacket for when it is dry and cold outside, so it needs to handle some use. And your tip, is "older is better" in terms of the ELC jackets?

Hehe, off season yes... That is a very good idea But i guess most of us is not thinking about winter jacket when the spring and summer is upon us But that beeing said, its a valuable tip that i will keep in the back of my head if i dont find anything i like during the fall and winter.

 

[Foster]

The sizes can vary from one manufacturer to another, so it is best to use the jacket measurements and not focus on the size label in the collar.

The B-3 is a shorter jacket compared to others, but they did make them in different lengths during the war.

I have two jackets marked the same size from different manufacturers and one is clearly longer in length than the other.

House contract, you are correct, this is basically a new pattern inspired by the originals. The contract copies are replicas of specific jackets made by a certain company in WWII.

 

[archbury918]

Zep, I didn't realize you were in Narvik. I bow to you knowing seriously cold weather! Having grown up in Minnesota, I love winter and snow. One day hope to make it to my ancestral land being half Norwegian myself.

These jackets are extremely well made. I have WWII originals I could wear if I chose to. The reproductions today are just as well, if not made better than the wartime issue. Unless the jacket is torn, you can expect most of them to be last your lifetime. Aero and Eastman have customer service to assist you throughout your ownership for any issues you may have.
All of the sites have sections that diagram sizing and measuring. If your going to spend that kind of money, go to a local tailor for your specific measurements. I wear mine in rotation only because I do have that fortunate option, but could wear just one daily. I wear them to work, walking my Chow, and just about anywhere. They are very sturdy and stand up to most anything. The seal brown color also hides the odd stain should it happen. Keep in mind, unless reinforced, the exterior is the 'flesh side' of the hide. They only have a light tanning and acrylic dyeing for color. The exterior is subject to 'flaking' from too much flexing. Only my 70 yr old jackets have that issue.
I'm a standard size so don't have any issues with the cut. Unless you have a belly larger than your chest you should be just fine. Shoulder and upper arm can be a concern. People that are into lifting weights may find a snug fit in a regular tag size. If your an average fit guy you will have no problems with an "off the rack" jacket. The jackets have a slight taper cut to the pattern.
I've never worn more than a medium weight sweater at best under mine. If you are shoveling snow or doing physical effort you will get too warm very quickly with more than a shirt. I do wear a scarf to protect the shearling from skin oils and regulate warmth as I move about.
They are waist length, so perfect for driving and watching outdoor events. The sleeves can be rolled up or down as needed. Especially useful when driving and arm stretched.
The 20 yr old Eastman is like most things older...just damn well made. It was a time when the quest was to make a jacket for order, not knock out 3 a day. Not too different from current construction but the sheepskin used is exceptionally dense. It's like buying a diamond. They make look the same, but close up they have different grades.
Take a look at the Classified section here. I had a friend whose RMNZ B-3 couldn't sell for $500 in March, but just sold for nearly $900USD.
There is also another forum most here also belong to. It's just for jacket addicts called Vintage Leather Jackets forum. They too have a classified.
I can check for you if you give me a size. I recall a B-3 for sale from Sweden earlier this year that may still be available.
Cheers!

 

[archbury918]

Another point I wish to make on buying these expensive jackets. If going new, Aero, ELC, RMNZ, and let's not forget John and Good Wear all have top notch customer service and provide samples of the material to make your jacket.
If purchased second hand by a member here or VLJ, they know what your looking for and will provide their first hand recommendations on the jacket they offer up. Also, you will get pix that are more detailed than any you'll get online from the major makers.

 

[JakeLitva]

Dont't forget Cirrus.

 

[andyfalzon]

In my opinion, the best affordable B-3 is the G&B
That is if they make it as nice as shown here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6GKelju0zs

 

[Worf]

I have an Aero Irvin bought used off'n a lounger. It originally had long and "fluffy" fleece. He dunked it in the bath to get the fleeced to "draw-in" to Teddy Bear length or a shorter pile. I've a new Alexander Leathers "Redskin" D1 in the same fluffy kind of fleece. I may dunk it and I may not. Depends on whether I want to risk a new jacket. The Irvin is quite similar to the B-3 and is my NUMBER ONE heavy cold and snow jacket. I personally think you'd be happy with ANY of the major manufacturers BUT there are differences.

Worf

 

[Capesofwrath]

Dont't forget Cirrus.

Yes they make very good jackets if maybe not accurate if my twenty five year old Cirrus B3 is anything to go by. Nor that I really care about that.

It's got two fairly large front patch pockets instead of one smallish one, which are very useful incidentally; and is very well made of good quality curly English sheepskin. It's still my warmest jacket after all these years, and will still be going strong when I'm not. It still looks the part too and the sleeve HH and sheepskin is smooth and flexible and nicely broken in.

 

[ButteMT61]

I bought my son an Aero B-3 two years back. It's a fantastic jacket. Is it "accurate"? Don't know. It's extremely well made, great looking, and warm as hell.
I'd never hesitate to recommend it to anyone.

 

[Zepticon]

Thanks a lot for all the replies! It seems this was the right place to ask about this! I have also made myself an account on the VLJ forum also, and will be on the lookout in the classified sections. I got loads of new names on the list now, and will do some research on al of them, and set up some search warnings on ebay for used jackets.
The ones linked in that youtube video also looks great, and it seems to be an affordable jacket if i wanted a brand new one. Only problem is that they are making them in two-tone only, and i am not to happy about that combination. If i wanted a more brown ish jacket i would have gone with the Irvin style Jacket (which i probably will get if i like the B3). I will try to email them and ask if they make them in single color variations also.

 

[Stand By]

If money's an issue, then Aviation Leathercraft might also be an option. What they lack in true authenticity, they make up for in Tog units - as the jackets are "over-engineered" from the originals and are toasty - handy for a cold morning in Norway - or Canada - and as I used to say, the next best thing to still being in bed! The jackets are tough (I had one of their Irvins and wore it for 18 years and it was still going strong) and wear well.
Their website doesn't seem to show their B-3 (I couldn't see it just now anyway) so perhaps it's discontinued???
But I just Googled "Aviation Leathercraft B3" and the second hit was one that has just sold on Kijiji - it was just north of me over here too - and sold for a reasonable CDN$500.
Check out the photo and it'll give you an idea of what it looked like - something else for you to look out for in the future?
Good hunting!

http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...ing-other-B3-Flying-Jacket-W0QQAdIdZ374042106

 

[Capesofwrath]

I agree with that. I tried one of their Irvin's on when I went to Thruxton to buy another jacket from them fifteen or so years ago and it was very heavy and very warm. Heavier than my Cirrus B3. They make their sheepskin jackets for vintage open car users and open cockpit flyers so I think they care about practicality of use not authenticity. They sell a lighter weight one for people who don't want to sit in the wind.

Their jackets are very well made but they do get sneered at by some because they don't try for authenticity.

 

[Stand By]

Absolutely, Capesofwrath. IMO, it's horses-for-courses, as they say.
When I had my first Canadian Winter out here, I had my Aviation Leathercraft Irvin on me when I experienced a wind-chill of -42C for the very first time ... I set off to work knowing it was -42C and naiively wondered how that would feel as an experience and set off with a sense of adventure ... and I'll tell you that the very last thing on my mind - when I was running for all I was worth with a primal need for shelter and I could swear that my ears were bleeding from being raw!!! - was the tailoring or the accuracy of the zip !

I was shaken by the experience but the jacket held up well though. I can't knock it in that regard.

 

[archbury918]

Zep, now that you have your VLJ acct, be sure to check out the 'Review' section. It'll have detailed critiques of all jackets over a several year period most with multiple photos.

 

[Zepticon]

Aviation Leather craft have this: http://www.flying-jacket.com/product-details.aspx?id=12
Nice price, but no images

 

[Sloan1874]

No pics? That's mental: "Yes, sir, I will take you on your word that this is exactly the jacket I'm looking for. Now about that pig in a poke that you want to sell me..."