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Panama hat questions?

mrkjhn

New in Town
Messages
4
Maybe someone who knows about making hats might be able to help here. I purchased a new panama from Panama Hats Direct which I’m having trouble with as to the fit. Being my second hat from them, I opted to get a higher quality weave (Super Fino) than my previous one (Fino...which I’ve worn to death and is beginning to fall apart from use: backpacking, fishing, walking the dog, caught in rain storms etc…). The Super Fino is beautiful and quite pleased with the quality of the hat, however it does not stay on my head with the gentlest of breezes. The previous one I could pull down and it’d stay on tight regardless of any wind; this one?… not so; it pops off at the slightest provocation.

My head measures 58.5 and this hat was supposed to be a 59; my own measurement shows a sloppy +59'ish. I’ve a few custom made felt hats are all 59s and they fit perfect without fear of blowing off in a gust.
I don’t know how milliners measure/determine size, but as to the best of my efforts. mine seem to measure ~59 around the outside diameter of the leather hat band, while the inside is closer to about 57.5 - 58; making for a secure snug, but not uncomfortable fit. I know felt w/leather sweat bands will slightly stretch out and form fit itself; a good thing! Every time I don one, it's a pleasure feeling the hat fit just so!

I’ve tried sizing down the panama with cork insert strips and they mostly distort the shape of the hat when worn (more pressure/stress with such a fine light weave?) and the hat still want’s to pop up and off the back of my head without any grip. The leather sweatband helps with the front of the head, though I can't help but think a better quality of band would improve things drastically.

The panama measures a sloppy 59 on the inside, so it’s definitely larger than what I normally wear and while the inserts used to size it down doesn’t seem to fix anything, my only other thought is that rather than the walls of the hat band being vertical I............I where it can grip your head, they’re more conical /………..\ which encourages it to slip up and off no matter the fit.

Needless to say, this experience has kind of soured me with online-purchases, especially out-of-country ones and I hesitate to "try again". My first round with PHD was a hat obviously too small for what was ordered, and while I was able to return it, get my return shipping fees back and replaced with a proper fit, it was painstaking and required a lot of negotiations and holding my ground to get it done. I took another chance upgrading to this second hat, but at this point, it's lost money unless it's an indoor hat (huh???)

Now my questions is: a custom hat from someone like Brent Black or a shop in Santa Fe where I frequent? Brent seems to address the fit issue with sending multiple sizes of bands to try on, which I like, and I’d hope the quality and size/shape of the bands would help with the fit, rather than the low quality leather band from PHD, which are smaller/thinner leather with limited structure and hence grip. Of course, the cost jump is pretty extreme and just wondering if it’s worth it or… if there’s another option for tackling this ill-fitting hat of mine. Any chance re-blocking it, or a new sweatband to fix the problem? If it's structural, such as the conical shape of the walls, does that make this all moot?
 

shopkin

Familiar Face
Messages
89
Walk in the rain and then let the hat dry on your head. Heads put out a lot of heat so it doesn't take long.
 
Messages
10,786
Location
vancouver, canada
Maybe someone who knows about making hats might be able to help here. I purchased a new panama from Panama Hats Direct which I’m having trouble with as to the fit. Being my second hat from them, I opted to get a higher quality weave (Super Fino) than my previous one (Fino...which I’ve worn to death and is beginning to fall apart from use: backpacking, fishing, walking the dog, caught in rain storms etc…). The Super Fino is beautiful and quite pleased with the quality of the hat, however it does not stay on my head with the gentlest of breezes. The previous one I could pull down and it’d stay on tight regardless of any wind; this one?… not so; it pops off at the slightest provocation.

My head measures 58.5 and this hat was supposed to be a 59; my own measurement shows a sloppy +59'ish. I’ve a few custom made felt hats are all 59s and they fit perfect without fear of blowing off in a gust.
I don’t know how milliners measure/determine size, but as to the best of my efforts. mine seem to measure ~59 around the outside diameter of the leather hat band, while the inside is closer to about 57.5 - 58; making for a secure snug, but not uncomfortable fit. I know felt w/leather sweat bands will slightly stretch out and form fit itself; a good thing! Every time I don one, it's a pleasure feeling the hat fit just so!

I’ve tried sizing down the panama with cork insert strips and they mostly distort the shape of the hat when worn (more pressure/stress with such a fine light weave?) and the hat still want’s to pop up and off the back of my head without any grip. The leather sweatband helps with the front of the head, though I can't help but think a better quality of band would improve things drastically.

The panama measures a sloppy 59 on the inside, so it’s definitely larger than what I normally wear and while the inserts used to size it down doesn’t seem to fix anything, my only other thought is that rather than the walls of the hat band being vertical I............I where it can grip your head, they’re more conical /………..\ which encourages it to slip up and off no matter the fit.

Needless to say, this experience has kind of soured me with online-purchases, especially out-of-country ones and I hesitate to "try again". My first round with PHD was a hat obviously too small for what was ordered, and while I was able to return it, get my return shipping fees back and replaced with a proper fit, it was painstaking and required a lot of negotiations and holding my ground to get it done. I took another chance upgrading to this second hat, but at this point, it's lost money unless it's an indoor hat (huh???)

Now my questions is: a custom hat from someone like Brent Black or a shop in Santa Fe where I frequent? Brent seems to address the fit issue with sending multiple sizes of bands to try on, which I like, and I’d hope the quality and size/shape of the bands would help with the fit, rather than the low quality leather band from PHD, which are smaller/thinner leather with limited structure and hence grip. Of course, the cost jump is pretty extreme and just wondering if it’s worth it or… if there’s another option for tackling this ill-fitting hat of mine. Any chance re-blocking it, or a new sweatband to fix the problem? If it's structural, such as the conical shape of the walls, does that make this all moot?
The only 'fix' for a hat too large is to reblock it and sew in a smaller sweat.. It is a bit easier on a Panama that needs just a bit of a downward adjustment. How are your sewing skills? Do you have a hat stretcher? You don't have to reblock the entire crown...just draw in the straw at the brim break, cut down the sweat to fit your head and resew it into the hat. If you are game i can walk you through it. I just went through this with o super fino I bought from them. I ordered it without a sweat and without ribbon so I could put on better quality.
 

truffaux

New in Town
Messages
24
Location
Hawaii, France, Australia
Hi Mark - I deal with this all the time. Your Panama will shrink over time, so a little more room is a good thing. All you need to do is put a spacer underneath the back of the hat band. I use window foam for all the hats I ship - it has a sticky side, so will stick to the inside of your hat.
In the old days, people would use cardboard, money, felt, strips of leather or anything lying around. Cork is too inflexible, but thin foam is just right.
Make sure you install the pads starting at the back of the hat, and keep them balanced so your hat is balanced.
Good Luck
Oska

https://www.truffaux.com/blogs/panama-hat-advice/why-do-panama-hats-shrink
 

Short Balding Guy

I'll Lock Up
Messages
9,819
Location
Minnesota, USA
Good morning. Lots of sage advise given to the OP's question.

I would like to humbly add my experiences.

i-pgBSxxr-M.jpg


The above pic showcases a PHD purchased this past winter. I am about 15 wears into the straw hats wearing life. I have added a light foam sizing strip in the rear of this hat. I purchased a few hats at the same time and they arrived with slightly different circumferences. The foam makes the hat fit snug. I live by a lake and a snug fit ensures that the hat does not go for an inadvertent swim.

I add the sizing strip (foam) while I wait for the leather sweat to contract. My experience has been that the leather sweats contract with my wear. The amount varies per leather sweat. I do sweat and use them. I wear them, if not I sell them. They get worn in all appropriate weather. Wiping during wear and after wearing is accompanied with adding leather conditioner when needed is my routine.

i-WVLx38m-M.jpg


My head does not match the crown block used perfectly. My experiences are that with wear my head distorts the shape to better conform. The above pic shows were the hat is a bit looser at the front sides than the rear or front. Over time this adjusts.

FYI: I see some loose straw at the edge and it does not bother me at the moment. In the past I have used a fine loop scissors add trimmed the edges. We will see if I am bothered my the few loose ends.

I hope my post contributes to this posts conversation.

Cheers, Eric -
 
Last edited:

mrkjhn

New in Town
Messages
4
Hi Mark - I deal with this all the time. Your Panama will shrink over time, so a little more room is a good thing. All you need to do is put a spacer underneath the back of the hat band. I use window foam for all the hats I ship - it has a sticky side, so will stick to the inside of your hat.
In the old days, people would use cardboard, money, felt, strips of leather or anything lying around. Cork is too inflexible, but thin foam is just right.
Make sure you install the pads starting at the back of the hat, and keep them balanced so your hat is balanced.
Good Luck
Oska

https://www.truffaux.com/blogs/panama-hat-advice/why-do-panama-hats-shrink
Thanks for all the responses; I'm currently saturating the leather and letting it shrink to see how it goes.

The problem with using spacers is it just adds more to the conical effect, causing the hat to slip off even more; the part that goes around my head, the part of the band that sits down around the head needs the adjustment; the spacers sit above that. But I do like the idea of loading it up with a couple $20's.... comes in handy when you're walking by a bar.
 

Bill Hughes

My Mail is Forwarded Here
Messages
3,156
Location
North Texas
Thanks for all the responses; I'm currently saturating the leather and letting it shrink to see how it goes.

The problem with using spacers is it just adds more to the conical effect, causing the hat to slip off even more; the part that goes around my head, the part of the band that sits down around the head needs the adjustment; the spacers sit above that. But I do like the idea of loading it up with a couple $20's.... comes in handy when you're walking by a bar.
Spacers go behind the sweatband tucked down to the bottom.
 

JeffOYB

Vendor
Messages
208
Location
Michigan
I just got a new-to-me nifty Montecristi Fino panama. It's sweet and the fineness of the weave is pretty to me. ...But it has several "dots" of darker straw. Not whole straws. Just one portion of weave. One. A dot. Of darker straw. 1/32" maybe, or smaller. I'd say there are 4 such dots around the hat that I notice. I don't like seeing them. Like seeing flecks of pepper. I want to brush them off. Is there a decent source for "paint" that I could use to dab those dots of dark? I suppose I need to color match the paint to the straw. But is there a kind/type to look at for this? I guess I could go to JoAnn Fabric or Michael's Craft and ask them, but maybe a durable color-retouch way is known already here in hat-land...
 
Last edited:
Messages
10,786
Location
vancouver, canada
I just got a new-to-me nifty Montecristi Fino panama. It's sweet and the fineness of the weave is pretty to me. ...But it has several "dots" of darker straw. Not whole straws. Just one portion of weave. One. A dot. Of darker straw. 1/32" maybe, or smaller. I'd say there are 4 such dots around the hat that I notice. I don't like seeing them. Like seeing flecks of pepper. I want to brush them off. Is there a decent source for "paint" that I could use to dab those dots of dark? I suppose I need to color match the paint. But is there a kind/type to look at for this? I guess I could go to JoAnn Fabric or Michael's Craft and ask them, but maybe a durable color-retouch way is known already here in hat-land...
Not to dissuade you but you are treading on dangerous turf....risking making it worse.
 

JeffOYB

Vendor
Messages
208
Location
Michigan
I don't do spacers. But I did do an all-around padding and fairing-out with paper towel and it worked great to snug up a hat. I folded it and tucked it inside the hatband. And there's it's been for years, making my too big hat just right. So there's that.
 

guillaumeb

One of the Regulars
Messages
178
Location
France
Hello,

Î would like to dye a Panama hat
I’m wondering what is the best method to achieve this
is’there a specific process to follow ? Like should i steam the toquilla first ?
is there a particular product that I should be using or that you would recommend ?

thank you
 
Messages
10,786
Location
vancouver, canada
Hello,

Î would like to dye a Panama hat
I’m wondering what is the best method to achieve this
is’there a specific process to follow ? Like should i steam the toquilla first ?
is there a particular product that I should be using or that you would recommend ?

thank you
I have never tried this and would not. Panama straw absorbs water and swells....hence the reason you should not get them wet. The dyes that I use for fur felt require hot water immersion in order for the dye to penetrate the fibre. My thought is this would destroy the toquilla straw. There are other types of straw that are dyable....rafia I thinkis one. If you proceed do so knowing the risk of ruining the hat or at least having to reblock, reflange and resew the sweat and ribbon. And report back to us on how it all works out.
 

milandro

A-List Customer
Messages
417
Location
The Netherlands
I have somewhat a similar " problem", I own a Christys' Panama which a bought a few years ago , the color is Brown/Burgundy and has started, after a few years of wearing to lose its color depth in places , I wondered what to do about it. Other than accept it changes.

this is one (not mine picture from eBay) similar to mine and identical in color

1689585102718.png
 

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