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Panamas from the weavers
- Thread starter Neil
- Start date
ken100
Familiar Face
- Messages
- 90
- Location
- Sydney Australia
Direct
I bought a Monticristi from an American guy who lives in Ecuador and has a web business called panama hats direct, very nice hat, good price, he says that most of the money goes into the hands of the artisans.
I bought a Monticristi from an American guy who lives in Ecuador and has a web business called panama hats direct, very nice hat, good price, he says that most of the money goes into the hands of the artisans.
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BobC
My Mail is Forwarded Here
- Messages
- 3,378
- Location
- Central IL
Interesting observation, Neil, but I have only bought and will only buy panamas from Panama Bob. I know him to be a straight shooter, and he is well respected here on the lounge.
HungaryTom
One Too Many
- Messages
- 1,204
- Location
- Hungary
Information
Search Youtube for Weaving Life - The Story of Ecuador's "Panama Hat" This 3 parts documentary is quite comprehensive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rp8bg451EQo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQZ4DoIdSwA&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVm_ZbKVnTk
The weavers could not sell directly their produce whatever finely woven it is since it looks like this http://images.travelpod.com/users/dospollos/thumbnail.large.dospollos.1119730020.mini-img_1140.jpg
Their output must be finished to become a hat in the first place.Theoretically one person could do all the workflow and sell his/her ready product but it is never done that way. This is why the integrators of the workflow involving several different skilled workers are selling the panama hats either fully finished or as a raw material for international hatters who finish it themselves and sell it at their price range.
The hat company Homero Ortega -located in Cuenca http://www.homeroortega.com/ourcompany.html is one of the Ecuadorean integrators. (See part 3 of the documentary). Homero Ortega is not a weaver.
Hope this helps
Tom
Search Youtube for Weaving Life - The Story of Ecuador's "Panama Hat" This 3 parts documentary is quite comprehensive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rp8bg451EQo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQZ4DoIdSwA&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVm_ZbKVnTk
The weavers could not sell directly their produce whatever finely woven it is since it looks like this http://images.travelpod.com/users/dospollos/thumbnail.large.dospollos.1119730020.mini-img_1140.jpg
Their output must be finished to become a hat in the first place.Theoretically one person could do all the workflow and sell his/her ready product but it is never done that way. This is why the integrators of the workflow involving several different skilled workers are selling the panama hats either fully finished or as a raw material for international hatters who finish it themselves and sell it at their price range.
The hat company Homero Ortega -located in Cuenca http://www.homeroortega.com/ourcompany.html is one of the Ecuadorean integrators. (See part 3 of the documentary). Homero Ortega is not a weaver.
Hope this helps
Tom
Panama Bob
I have no doubt at all, BobC, that Panama Bob is a first-rate reseller. I have read the reviews here, and studied his website and I bought one of his raffle tickets this week.
But I think we all agree that thorough research is the key to making the right purchase, don't we? And I notice that Panama Bob sells Homero Ortega-blocked hats, and Homero Ortega has his own website.
So I'm just asking. . . .
I have no doubt at all, BobC, that Panama Bob is a first-rate reseller. I have read the reviews here, and studied his website and I bought one of his raffle tickets this week.
But I think we all agree that thorough research is the key to making the right purchase, don't we? And I notice that Panama Bob sells Homero Ortega-blocked hats, and Homero Ortega has his own website.
So I'm just asking. . . .
HungaryTom
One Too Many
- Messages
- 1,204
- Location
- Hungary
Weaver business is like no business
Tomasso,
If you watch the movies than you see how the weavers live : they are basically dirt poor peasants living in poor villages who do weave as a source of getting cash. Hungarians have also ethnic regions where pottery plays a similar role. I come from the second world and here the crediting system has never been such relaxed as it was/is in the USA. Even before this damn crisis. It is impossible for an undereducated and under-capitalized individual to get to a bank and to get capital to start up a business.
The bank would namely ask: What business plan can he present? What will be his income? The revenue from selling maximum a dozen of hats per year – really nice hats take 3-4 months. So this is 3-4 hats per weaver/yr and if two or three family members are weaving it makes a dozen hats. Per year. If all are sold.
What is his regular income otherwise- if one excludes revenues from hat sales? Virtually nothing I guess – the guys have hardly cash in such areas – they are autark, have their animals and their fields that provide them with the basics – the food but there is not much cash around, salaries are much lower than in towns. This is valid for the really rural and underdeveloped places in Hungary – I think the same is valid also for Ecuadors weaver villages.
Than the question begs: how would he sell the hats? The people buying upmarket panamas never come to his place. Going to Quito? Montecarlo? London? New York? To set up a business there? What is the cost? What would be the backing? How can the bamboo shack/ little house cover the risk of the loan? Banks dont give loans for certain type of houses in certain areas – they could never re-sell them if the creditor stops paying.
How would they get ribbons, roan leathers and wooden blocks to finish their hats?
Or to set up a webshop? For people who never have even electricity in their place? How do they e-mail to a webdesigner? How do they liaise with delivery services? How do they communicate with English/French/German/Japanese buyers?
Don Rosendo from Montecristi tells in the documentary that as a youngster he knew how to weave a hat as well, and all the steps of the workflow – he operates a hat finishing business. He is a good craftsman (he works all the time) and sells finished Montecristi fino hats in his tiny workshop at the same time. This legendary smalltown enterpreneur does basically everything himself – you see in part 2 the boundaries of his growth, this is how far he could get in 80+ years of diligent work.
Homero Ortega, the gentleman guiding the tour in his factory is a third generation businessman operating an international business in a large town with his sister and brother– and most probably never weaves. ’Just’ manages a few hundred people, plus the workflow of manufacturing and selling a few hundred-thousand hats annually – also a full-time job.
That's why I guess. Tom
P.S. I met a cobbler in Hungary in 2003 - much more wealthy place than Ecuador. This 24 yr old young master said how difficult it is to start a proper workshop with full sets of shoe lasts and all the equipment - it costs him 4-5000 USD. And this amount was a problem for him. Go figure.
Tomasso,
If you watch the movies than you see how the weavers live : they are basically dirt poor peasants living in poor villages who do weave as a source of getting cash. Hungarians have also ethnic regions where pottery plays a similar role. I come from the second world and here the crediting system has never been such relaxed as it was/is in the USA. Even before this damn crisis. It is impossible for an undereducated and under-capitalized individual to get to a bank and to get capital to start up a business.
The bank would namely ask: What business plan can he present? What will be his income? The revenue from selling maximum a dozen of hats per year – really nice hats take 3-4 months. So this is 3-4 hats per weaver/yr and if two or three family members are weaving it makes a dozen hats. Per year. If all are sold.
What is his regular income otherwise- if one excludes revenues from hat sales? Virtually nothing I guess – the guys have hardly cash in such areas – they are autark, have their animals and their fields that provide them with the basics – the food but there is not much cash around, salaries are much lower than in towns. This is valid for the really rural and underdeveloped places in Hungary – I think the same is valid also for Ecuadors weaver villages.
Than the question begs: how would he sell the hats? The people buying upmarket panamas never come to his place. Going to Quito? Montecarlo? London? New York? To set up a business there? What is the cost? What would be the backing? How can the bamboo shack/ little house cover the risk of the loan? Banks dont give loans for certain type of houses in certain areas – they could never re-sell them if the creditor stops paying.
How would they get ribbons, roan leathers and wooden blocks to finish their hats?
Or to set up a webshop? For people who never have even electricity in their place? How do they e-mail to a webdesigner? How do they liaise with delivery services? How do they communicate with English/French/German/Japanese buyers?
Don Rosendo from Montecristi tells in the documentary that as a youngster he knew how to weave a hat as well, and all the steps of the workflow – he operates a hat finishing business. He is a good craftsman (he works all the time) and sells finished Montecristi fino hats in his tiny workshop at the same time. This legendary smalltown enterpreneur does basically everything himself – you see in part 2 the boundaries of his growth, this is how far he could get in 80+ years of diligent work.
Homero Ortega, the gentleman guiding the tour in his factory is a third generation businessman operating an international business in a large town with his sister and brother– and most probably never weaves. ’Just’ manages a few hundred people, plus the workflow of manufacturing and selling a few hundred-thousand hats annually – also a full-time job.
That's why I guess. Tom
P.S. I met a cobbler in Hungary in 2003 - much more wealthy place than Ecuador. This 24 yr old young master said how difficult it is to start a proper workshop with full sets of shoe lasts and all the equipment - it costs him 4-5000 USD. And this amount was a problem for him. Go figure.
jpbales
Practically Family
- Messages
- 507
- Location
- Georga, USA
...
http://www.panamas.biz/tour.html
looks like they are blocking them in Ecuador to me... "Fino Fino Blocked in Ecuador"
you basically can buy a panama hat straight from Ecuador... and you're helping them out by giving them a job as well. They list the American-blocked hats for more, and just telling from the pictures they have nicer blocks, more block styles, and possibly better ribbons and such.
It seems that panama Bob would know the most about this to me.[huh]
http://www.panamas.biz/tour.html
looks like they are blocking them in Ecuador to me... "Fino Fino Blocked in Ecuador"
you basically can buy a panama hat straight from Ecuador... and you're helping them out by giving them a job as well. They list the American-blocked hats for more, and just telling from the pictures they have nicer blocks, more block styles, and possibly better ribbons and such.
It seems that panama Bob would know the most about this to me.[huh]
HungaryTom
One Too Many
- Messages
- 1,204
- Location
- Hungary
The Fedora Lounge IS a good venue
The documentary is a good source of info and it is as neutral as possible-it is not taken from a webshop site.
Weavers are never selling their own hats - sellers do that instead.
The Fedora Lounge is a place where you find panama hat posts and photos coming from clients of various sellers.
The documentary is a good source of info and it is as neutral as possible-it is not taken from a webshop site.
Weavers are never selling their own hats - sellers do that instead.
The Fedora Lounge is a place where you find panama hat posts and photos coming from clients of various sellers.
Panamabob
Call Me a Cab
- Messages
- 2,012
- Location
- Fort Wayne, Indiana
Homero Ortega has passed away. His daughter, Alicia, runs the company now. They are not weavers, they are the end seller. Also, they are from CUENCA and sell CUENCA hats. Their vaults are full of highly prized Montecristis, yes, but they sell Cuenca hats. We do have many of our hats pressed by their company, yes.
Amazingly, I saw a video from one of the other guys and he claims hand blocking and you can clearly see the blue machine blocks right in the video.
Amazingly, I saw a video from one of the other guys and he claims hand blocking and you can clearly see the blue machine blocks right in the video.
