Pulled Through a Cow Wrong-End-To

[jamespowers]

The easiest way to get rid of the wavy brim is to stretch the hat. If you have a Long Oval head then the hat has to fit as such or the brim waves. I know since I am an Extra Long Oval. Stretching the hat front to back will usually solve the problem. It does for me. In practice, I just get a 7 5/8 since a 7 1/2 Extra Long Oval is not very common and when it is it is usually still not long enough. :kick:
Just treat the sweatband with Lexol or some other leather treatment and let it soak in. When it won't take in an application any more, that is the time to stretch it. The sweatband will be pliable enough to take the stretch without splitting, breaking or screaming. I hate it when they scream.

Regards to all,

J

 

[Luisiana Jones]

Thanks Scotrace, searching tool it is then

 

[scotrace]

Pretty Much Finished

Thought you gents might like to see this hat finished. Stretched as far as I dare (fits loosely and still the brim is waving at me when worn).

This represents several hours of fussing. Final fuss came after seeing the Noir film "Touch of Evil" the other night, where every second man had a similar hat on.
Steaming has made it only slightly less floppy than tissue paper. Does someone here offer/know a source for stiffener?

Before

After

 

[BellyTank]

Hey SkirtChase- Looks good but.
What an improvementway!
B
T

 

[fedoralover]

It turned out very nice, might I suggest though, NOT to put felt stiffner on it. I have 5 of this style of Borsalino's and the thin, dense, floppy felt is one of it's trademarks and unique to that era of Borsalino's. Anything new you buy today will be stiff preformed felt. That thin floppyness is a sign of the day when they made quality over quantity. Buy a hat stretcher if you haven't done so already and do as JP suggested and stretch it front to back. It will fit and you will be glad you left the felt floppy. If over a period of time it still doesn't do what you want you can always add it later, just don't get in a hurry to do so.

regards fedoralover

 

[feltfan]

Just treat the sweatband with Lexol or some other leather treatment and let it soak in. When it won't take in an application any more, that is the time to stretch it. The sweatband will be pliable enough to take the stretch without splitting, breaking or screaming. I hate it when they scream.

I have often thought about using Lexol or mink oil or something
like that on sweat bands. But I have hesitated for fear that it
would soak through and stain the hat felt. Has this ever happened
to you?

A good sweat band seems to stretch okay without it. But I did
crack a sweat band in a really nice blue Mallory Coast to Coast.

 

[fedoralover]

feltfan, don't use anything that is typically used to waterproof leather. It will plug up the pores in the leather and prevent it from breathing. Lexol is easy to find and is used specifically on leather upholstery in cars, which of course you want to breath. Otherwise you end up with basically an expensive vinyl. It won't breath and will feel sticky when it gets hot. You can over dose the sweatband of course and that is not good nor necessary to get it to stretch.

regards fedoralover

 

[jamespowers]

I have often thought about using Lexol or mink oil or something
like that on sweat bands. But I have hesitated for fear that it
would soak through and stain the hat felt. Has this ever happened
to you?

It has not happened to me but I am careful. I apply it and let the leather soak it in. In order to do this you have to turn the sweatband out so that the back side is easily accessible. Apply the Lexol to the back side of the sweatband and let it soak in. If it is dry within twenty minutes then apply a second coat and let that soak in over night. By morning the sweatband probably will have absorbed all the Lexol. If not, wipe the excess off the back of the sweatband. Allow that to dry and then turn it back into the hat. Just be careful when you apply it and it won't make a mess.
Mink oil is not exactly what I would use. That is more of a waterproofer as Fed mentioned.

Regards to all,

J

 

[scotrace]

Thanks Again, Fedoralover

I did get a stretcher and used it. (I don't know the experience of others, but I bought a Hallett via Ebay and it worked well). As I mentioned, it fits loosely now.
It's sitting over a bowl of levendar, trying to remove some of the "back of the closet for 50 years" smell.

I'll also take your advice about the stiffener. The super softness (touch it and it changes shape) takes some getting used to after modern felt.
Thanks VERY much for the advice everyone. James' Lexol advice worked well also, without staining the felt. I took the extra pecaution of tucking some tissue under the sweat when folding it down until I was quite sure the Lexol had dried.

 

[fedoralover]

I hope you aren't taking it on and off by grabbing the crown. Just in case some people don't know, that will put a hole in the pinch point from the constant flexing of the felt. Also the oils from your hand will show up where you grab it too, yes that will happen on the brim but it will clean off easier and not ruin the shape of the crown as well. Alway take your fur felt hat on and off by grabbing the brim.

fedoralover

 

[scotrace]

Nope.

Not doing that (of course).

 

[feltfan]

Lexol in my future

Thanks for the detailed Lexol advice. I have a 3/8 Resistol I'd
like to bring closer to a 5/8 (I just got a severe haircut so I don't
have to get as close as I used to) so I'll give it a try. It's a white
hat, so I'll know if I did it right or not...

I'll report my results to the group.

 

[feltfan]

Lexol results

The Lexol did the trick. The 3/8 hat fits my 5/8 head now.
After applying the Lexol I put it first on my wood block stretcher
and then the metal one. I treated with steam from my espresso
machine.

Some comments:

- I did manage to spill a tiny drop of Lexol on the felt on the
underside of the brim, next to the sweat band. No one will
see it, but I know it is there. If you were wondering, at least
on this dense Resistol felt, it did not soak through or particularly
discolor the (white and already slightly stained) felt.

- Stretching a hat a couple of sizes does have problems. I'm open
to suggestions on how to avoid them. I noticed early on that the
bow on the sweat band left a lump on the back of the felt. Now this
won't happen with your bruiser Cavanagh felt, but it did here. I mostly
avoided this problem by slipping some stiff paper between the bow end
of the sweat band and the felt.

- The bigger problem is that you can just barely see the outline of
the sweatband on the outside of the crown. I guess I should have
had stiff paper all the way around while stretching? It's not Lexol soaking
through, it's a tiny dent in the felt. Again, not a problem with thick
felt, but this is a thin, fine felt.

Other than that, the proportions of the hat look fine, which is a relief.
The Lexol left the sweat band a touch tacky (in the tactile, not
aesthetic sense), but I assume that'll change over time.

Thanks again all. I may experiment with other leather conditioners
to see what happens. But this works well.

One of these days I'll figure out how to post hat pictures on this site.

 

[jamespowers]

comments:

- I did manage to spill a tiny drop of Lexol on the felt on the
underside of the brim, next to the sweat band. No one will
see it, but I know it is there. If you were wondering, at least
on this dense Resistol felt, it did not soak through or particularly
discolor the (white and already slightly stained) felt.

- Stretching a hat a couple of sizes does have problems. I'm open
to suggestions on how to avoid them. I noticed early on that the
bow on the sweat band left a lump on the back of the felt. Now this
won't happen with your bruiser Cavanagh felt, but it did here. I mostly
avoided this problem by slipping some stiff paper between the bow end
of the sweat band and the felt.

- The bigger problem is that you can just barely see the outline of
the sweatband on the outside of the crown. I guess I should have
had stiff paper all the way around while stretching? It's not Lexol soaking
through, it's a tiny dent in the felt. Again, not a problem with thick
felt, but this is a thin, fine felt.

Other than that, the proportions of the hat look fine, which is a relief.
The Lexol left the sweat band a touch tacky (in the tactile, not
aesthetic sense), but I assume that'll change over time.

Yep, you ran into the same problems that I have over time. You can usually dab off most of the excess Lexol and it will dry in time if you get it on the felt. The bow will leave a mark if you do not remove it before you stretch the hat. The stiff paper will help a bit but not as good as removing it. They are not hard to put back on anyway.
I know what you mean about the outline of the sweatband. You usually do not see this if the hat has a wide ribbon though. It is the case with a narrow ribbon where it shows up. The stiff paper may help a bit. I have never tried that though. For me it is sort of a tradeoff. If I want to keep the original sweatband then I have to put up with the little indent. :kick: A professional would just replace the sweatband and not have that problem---but I like to save the original sweatband whenever possible.
The sweatband will eventually become less tacky. You could also apply a little lexol to a soft cloth and go over the sweatband. Lexol is solvent to itself so that would probably do the trick.
I am glad you got it to fit right though. Better on your head than in the box.

Regards to all,

J

 

[feltfan]

That revealing ribbon

I know what you mean about the outline of the sweatband. You usually do not see this if the hat has a wide ribbon though. It is the case with a narrow ribbon where it shows up. The stiff paper may help a bit. I have never tried that though. For me it is sort of a tradeoff. If I want to keep the original sweatband then I have to put up with the little indent. A professional would just replace the sweatband and not have that problem---but I like to save the original sweatband whenever possible.

In general I do favor the original sweat band, too. In this particular
case I was totally out of luck- it's a Open Road style hat, so the
sweat band hides nothing.

I encircled the crown with stiff paper ripped unevenly at the top,
inserted under the sweat band. I put more paper behind
the bow, and steamed/stretched it again.
This allowed the hat to relax slightly where it showed sweat band
and bow stretching. But it's hard to do away with those marks once
they are there. Not that anyone will notice except me and people
on this site... Anyway I have learned a lot from this experience
and the hat is functional again.

The sweatband will eventually become less tacky. You could also apply a little lexol to a soft cloth and go over the sweatband. Lexol is solvent to itself so that would probably do the trick.
I am glad you got it to fit right though. Better on your head than in the box.

Amen. And the sweat band has already stopped being tacky.

Thanks again.

 

[MattC]

Stretching an old Borso

I have one of those old Borsalinos with the little venting device in the front. The hat is gorgeous (looks like it just came out of the box), but I need to give it a bit of a stretch. I don't want to crush the venting device. Has anyone tried this? James Powers, any advice?

 

[jamespowers]

I have one of those old Borsalinos with the little venting device in the front. The hat is gorgeous (looks like it just came out of the box), but I need to give it a bit of a stretch. I don't want to crush the venting device. Has anyone tried this? James Powers, any advice?

It really depends on how much you need to stretch it. The venting at the front of the hat is pretty resilient. You can stretch the hat one or two sizes without hurting the vent. Anything beyond that would require that you remove it before you try to stretch the hat. You can stitch it back fairly easily.

Regards to all,

J

 

[MattC]

Thanks as always

I'm just going from a 7 3/8 to a 7 1/2 l.o., so that should be no problem. Thanks for the advice as always.

 

[jamespowers]

The fear of breaking a sixty year old band almost outweighs all , I must say - Jesus Guys, after all, it is a sixty year old artefact, n'est-ce pas?

Don't sell a 60 year old hat short. They can still take quite a bit more beating than most modern off the shelf hats.

Regards to all,

J

 

[dopey]

The title of this thread has always puzzled me. If I were to pull a hat through the RIGHT end of a cow, how much better off would I be? And which is the right end to pull a hat through?