Russell Moccasin Co.

[One Drop]

Here is a FWIW comment on Russell boots. Back story is my mother and father owned Russells. And I wore both pair as my feet changed growing up at one time or another.

As an adult I ordered 3 pair of custom boots and got measured at one of their displays to get started.

Decades later my feet are at least a 1/2 to a full size too big for those boots now. Sadly, Russel has ditched all their old records and have adopted a new fitting program and sizing.

I was leery of buying again without knowing what I was going to get for sizing and the long wait times of 3 to 6 months (seemingly just as bad for wait times the last order I did in the '90s) put me off.

The time and just as effective, the cost of $1000 for a pair of boots had me looking elsewhere.

I found Gokey boots (made in USA) and Gokey-Field & Stream boots, made in the Dominican Republic, which are mirror images of the Gokey USA boots.

Only thing missing from Gokey IMO is the exorbitant price of a Russell today and the ability to special order a boot built to your specs. Hard to beat a triple vamp Russell. But still possible. Makes no sense to me to buy one pair of Russel's for what I could buy and did, for three pair of Gokey's.

I found the Gokey Simba ($440) every bit the equal to a dbl vamp Russell dbl vamp, Safari boot ($735). The Gokey F&S version was only $250 with a discount coupon ($299 retail). Enough less money, so I thought buying a 2nd pair now was a good idea.d easily rotate them.

My now too small, Russell's Safaris. Triple vamp, cape buffalo.
View attachment 736082


And a low cut, canvas, triple vamp Safari stalking boot.
View attachment 736083


And the Gokey Simba below. The Gokey-F&S version is the same boot. Best of all you can order them online for immediate shipment and they seem to run true to Brannock device measurement. No guessing!

View attachment 736085

Thanks for sharing your experiences, they look like great boots.

In defence of RM (not that they need defending) I was under the impression that historically they didn't recommend making new boots from old measurements, due to the way people's feet change over even short periods of time. AFAIK their sizing hasn't changed, which is the reason they aren't true to Bannock size, as they don't want to change or modernise the sizing due to all of the existing customers that are used to the old sizing. In reality their sizing is not that unusual, being the same as Red Wing and many other US made boot brands.

Three months is the indicated delay for new builds, and they seem to deliver within the promised delay.

BTW I just sold my too-small Backcountry pair and am enjoying the new pair immensely.

 

[tamoko]

Great boots, wery comfortable. I own one about twenty years ago. But this days he'll overpriced. My think price not more then Red Wing.

 

[Yahoody]

>In defence of RM (not that they need defending)

I get that you like your RM boots. But from my experience what you say on sizing simply isn't true. Wasn't then, isn't now. That is decades of experience not a few months. So we can agree to disagree. Frankly I would have ordered a new pair of "Big Cams" if I knew the first pair ordered would actually fit. After all my last pair of boots from years ago were in fact "Big Cams" ordered about the time the human version of "Big Cam" was born I suspect

Several things on the human body continue to grow from birth till death. Ears, your nose and your feet. Which is why 20+ years later my RM custom boots no longer fit. Not a big deal, my Nike size has changed over time as well.

Most recently when I quizzed the nice lady at RM on size, she suggested a 1/2 to a full size down from my most recent Brannock measurement. She also told me the size my older boots were marked, didn't mean that was the actual size of the boot, "because they were custom boots". These days I guess some folks can say anything they like fully believing you will believe them. In this case the phone rep's comments were at odds to my hour's long conversations with the 3 RM Reps that fit me for boots in person. If I was trying on boots in a store I would have no problem trying on whatever size they suggested today and buying what fit. Hand sewn moccasins don't fit like a normal shoe, so no problem taking the maker's suggestion to heart in person, hands on. Waiting months to see if I/they guessed right? And then waiting months again for a replacement? Not in my game plan while paying a silly premium for the name. No games from Gokey if the boots don't fit. No problem exchanging the boots for size or simply getting a credit back to your card. Both of which I really appreciate as a customer.

If one is looking for moccasin style boots and you go on Ebay, you'll find a literal plethora of RMs available. Not a lot of Gokeys. The RM return policy and fit issues are part of the reason for the "plethora" I suspect.

I've worn and been a Russell owner a long time. My wife's Russell's stiff fit. My parents and I wore their's out. Both were resoled a few times. I've sold my last two pair on Ebay recently.

The point of my original comment is this, "You can get an equally as well made, "Maine style moccasin boot", as the Russell boots, these days, for far less money and get them over night if you like, from Gokey."

Below, on the left a new pair of Gokey- F&S "South 40". On the right a well-worn pair of Gokey "Simba". They are the same boot. Worth pointing out I think, and the same dbl vamp moccasin boot, of equal quality IMO, as the RM's Safari. On the bottom of the photo a new pair of Gokey- F&S "Chukka" that I just started wearing yesterday.

Discount coupons and prices can vary wildly on the Gokey's. It pays to shop around. Their sizing for me has ran true to Brannock sizing.

https://www.gokeyusa.com/product-category/gokey-boots/

https://kevinscatalog.com/collections/gokey-usa

 

[One Drop]

>In defence of RM (not that they need defending)

I get that you like your RM boots. But from my experience what you say on sizing simply isn't true. Wasn't then, isn't now. That is decades of experience not a few months. So we can agree to disagree. Frankly I would have ordered a new pair of "Big Cams" if I knew the first pair ordered would actually fit. After all my last pair of boots from years ago were in fact "Big Cams" ordered about the time the human version of "Big Cam" was born I suspect

Several things on the human body continue to grow from birth till death. Ears, your nose and your feet. Which is why 20+ years later my RM custom boots no longer fit. Not a big deal, my Nike size has changed over time as well.

Most recently when I quizzed the nice lady at RM on size, she suggested a 1/2 to a full size down from my most recent Brannock measurement. She also told me the size my older boots were marked, didn't mean that was the actual size of the boot, "because they were custom boots". These days I guess some folks can say anything they like fully believing you will believe them. In this case the phone rep's comments were at odds to my hour's long conversations with the 3 RM Reps that fit me for boots in person. If I was trying on boots in a store I would have no problem trying on whatever size they suggested today and buying what fit. Hand sewn moccasins don't fit like a normal shoe, so no problem taking the maker's suggestion to heart in person, hands on. Waiting months to see if I/they guessed right? And then waiting months again for a replacement? Not in my game plan while paying a silly premium for the name. No games from Gokey if the boots don't fit. No problem exchanging the boots for size or simply getting a credit back to your card. Both of which I really appreciate as a customer.

If one is looking for moccasin style boots and you go on Ebay, you'll find a literal plethora of RMs available. Not a lot of Gokeys. The RM return policy and fit issues are part of the reason for the "plethora" I suspect.

View attachment 736213

https://www.gokeyusa.com/product-category/gokey-boots/

https://kevinscatalog.com/collections/gokey-usa

That Gokey model looks great.

I'm trying hard to understand your above comments about sizing but am having trouble following your points. From what I understand, in the past they were all custom made from fittings or tracings, so of course the actual size on a given boot might not correspond to that standard size or to an adjusted Brannock size.

I've been watching the eBay listings closely for the last year or so and very few are new or newish pairs being flipped, most are older more heavily worn ones that still have a high resale value, surprisingly so to me. It seems far more logical to me that the reason so many old pairs are available is because they retain a decent resell value and so are worth reselling, not the case with Gokeys.

I'm not defending their made-to-order policy not the potential problems on getting the right size (at least for a first pair, as the sizings seem to remain consistent among the various models).

I'm curious as to the waterproofness of the Gokeys compared to the RMs, though it's not really an issue with the Safari styles as they are meant for dry conditions. Curious if their Moccasin stitch keep water out as the overlapped RM one does.

I'd love to hear more about your parents.

 

[Yahoody]

>It seems far more logical to me that the reason so many old pairs are available is because they retain a decent resell value and so are worth reselling, not the case with Gokeys.

Interesting premise. Yes, almost all the RM are past production. Most of them new or very slightly used from what I have seen. So again we must disagree.

I'd never heard of Gokey or a hand full of other "Maine moccasin" boot makers until very recently. It took some searching and returned boots to find a comparative alternative to RM. Always been a RM fan myself. So, I get the angst of someone coming into your thread and disputing some of your comments.

Used Gokeys are around on Ebay occasionally and command a premium. Relative to how available they are now but still typically a premium. Most are very well used, however. Like the pair of chukkas I bought recently and have relisted for a good bit less than I paid for them.

If you got a good fit first time around with RM, congrads. Count yourself lucky in my experience.

Custom boots? I own/have owned so many custom boots I am actually embarrassed to put a number to it. But that list includes Haderer climbing boots, 4 brands of western boots, White's and Nick's and Russell of course. All a custom boot really means it the boot maker matched your foot up with a specific last which in turn has a number on it. The boot is then built around that last. The old wooden lasts (many hand carved) were never cheap and you had to have a lot of them to be a "custom boot maker". Nothing special about all that. RM is/was no different than anyone else.

>Curious if their Moccasin stitch keep water out as the overlapped RM one does.

Water proof? The construction methods are the same for both companies. "Water resistance" in a "Maine moccasin" style boot which is what Gokey and Russell both are, is dependent on the level of vamps (layers), single, db or triple. Triple being the most water resistant. And a triple is "very" water resistant. But none of them are anywhere close to being water proof.

And yes, Gokey's dbl vamp is just as water resistant as Russell's. My used pair of Gokey Simbas were worn changing irrigation lines all summer. Work better suited to a full rubber boot. And yes, eventually my feet did get wet standing in a few inches of water almost up to the canvas. Nothing unexpected there.

Funny that you would ask about my parents. I blame my mother ;_) She and her father were serious about elk hunting where they lived in Colorado. Back before sniping an elk at a 1000 yards with a 300 Win mag or a 338 Lapua became the current "hunting" past time. Back in the middle of the last century, when a 30-06 was as common as a 30-30. We had a subscription to Outdoor life as a kid, when RM advertised consistently in OL. *** writers wrote about RM. Which is why I suspect she and my father ended up wearing RM boots. She was more impressed than my father. He was a WWII Marine veteran of the Pacific and probably walked more in one season of hunting than my mother ever walked in her lifetime of hunting.

Either way I eventually got to wear their RM boots as I grew up and my feet changed. Buying my own RM boots seemed like a totally natural thing to do when I could eventually afford it. My father had bought Whites by then.

When it comes to hiking, I am pretty specific about where I would use a RM or a Gokey. I have intentionally worn leather runners above 20K' guiding on Aconcagua. Worn running shoes of one type or another hiking hundreds of miles into technical climbs carrying my climbing boots. A good bit of that very seldom on a well-worn trail. Until recently I have never actually owned any footwear that I would consider "hiking" shoes or boots. I have bought a couple different styles of Scarpas recently to work in, around our ranch. Water, sand and 100+F heat is rough on any boot and my feet.

So where do I use the "moccasins"? Walks that have very little elevation gain or loss, and the surface generally unobstructed. As the names might imply, "safari". If it wasn't for the thorns, I'd wear a decent trail running shoe there as well.

I had almost forgotten, the elephant in the room

What many don't realize, most any -true- moccasin style boot, Including Russell and Gokey field boots have almost " zero" foot support built into the boot. Add whatever amount of heel lift your sole provides, that could be nothing to a bit. Your socks are it for the fine fitting. Very little, to no arch support in these boots even with the triple vamp versions. Worse yet if you have narrow feet. You'll be best served IMO to think of them as barefoot boots. Although a good insole will help but knowing that before you buy will also help with sizing. The Gokey's do have a removable insole. So, you can mix and match insoles with whatever you might need there. If you are wondering is a "moccasin" right for you, try a Nike "Free" in any version. Unlikely as it might sound that will, I suspect, answer your question on "moccasins" and what your feet will tolerate. I like this style of boot because they are a true moccasin just for that reason. But it is an acquired taste, your feet have to be accustomed to and fit physically enough for the extra effort required of them to be comfortable.

 

[One Drop]

Interesting premise. Yes, almost all the RM are past production. Most of them new or very slightly used from what I have seen. So again we must disagree.

I've been following the ebay listings closely since the buyout, and still do monitor them for potential deals, the vast majority are pre- ownership change, and of them the majority are more than a few years old. A quick canvass of the ads will show that this is not really disputable, though I've no doubt the majority of new ones being flipped are indeed due to incorrect sizing.

I'd never heard of Gokey or a hand full of other "Maine moccasin" boot makers until very recently. It took some searching and returned boots to find a comparative alternative to RM. Always been a RM fan myself. So, I get the angst of someone coming into your thread and disputing some of your comments.

I've known about them as long as I have know about RM, and watched a few good videos a few years ago shpwing the whole production process. I have zero angst about other great shoe and boot brands, and would not hesitate to try a pair of Gokeys given the opportunity, especially the Safari style one that you own, that model for the reason that water resistance is not a big deal given that it's a boot made for dry conditions.

>Curious if their Moccasin stitch keep water out as the overlapped RM one does.

Water proof? The construction methods are the same for both companies. "Water resistance" in a "Maine moccasin" style boot which is what Gokey and Russell both are, is dependent on the level of vamps (layers), single, db or triple. Triple being the most water resistant. And a triple is "very" water resistant. But none of them are anywhere close to being water proof.

And yes, Gokey's dbl vamp is just as water resistant as Russell's. My used pair of Gokey Simbas were worn changing irrigation lines all summer. Work better suited to a full rubber boot. And yes, eventually my feet did get wet standing in a few inches of water almost up to the canvas. Nothing unexpected there.

I'm not convinced that the Gokey moccasin stitch on the uppers offers the same decent waterproofing, see the coincidentally recent video below for reasons. There are a few small differences pointed out in the video that might or might not have much impact, other than in the very long run, but the more flexible sole construction, offset seams, and waterproof seam on the Russels are important enough to me to make the extra cost worthwhile. I will eventually order a beefier RM boot for higher altitudes, when my current ones wear out, but I might consider the Gokey for a summer dry conditions boot like yours.

Thanks for your thoughts and experiences, and the cool photo!