Simmons Bilt Jacket Underway

[ton312]

Here we go around around around....

 

[Sloan1874]

Trial by forum my point is nothing been proven against SB in court seems unfair to call people thieves based on this everyone has the right to defend themselves as there is always 2 sides to a story.


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Actually, it was proved in court that when Will left to set up AL with Sandy A, he took a set of patterns with him - actually, he'd been doing it over a period of time, but was forced to return them when it became apparent that the police were about to pay him a visit. Subsequently, Napier Uni textile expert took an AL/SB jacket to pieces and found it be, unsurprisingly, the same as an Aero. The only difference was that the jacket was tagged a size up, so as to give it a 'slim fit'.
Now, it could be that Will produced these patterns from his own graft and talent (Butte, stop laughing) or that when he unveiled them with a flourish at AL, those present didn't question where they came from. But if you're of that mind, I have some magic beans and a bridge that you might be interested in... So, no, not really tarred, tbh.

 

[ButteMT61]

Here we go around around around....

It's that, or Speedos pal-take yer pick! And since it's 107º here, I"m ready

Again, for the record, I don't foist upon anyone my beliefs or morals. If you're OK doing biz with those cats, it's your thing, not mine. I'm sure I have patronized plenty of sh*ts over my lifetime as a consumer, but I try to avoid them if possible...

 

[ton312]

Funny thing for me is that, in 15-20years of collecting, buying/selling, my absolute favorite jacket ever is the Aero made storse j 106. A 12lb plus monster jacket sewn to the nuts by Julie.
It marks the point when things went south over at Aero and when Will began to unravel...but it literally destroys every other jacket I've owned. It's a weird thing maybe to hold an item with such dubious beginnings in such high regard, sits right at the intersection of near apocalyptic events. But it's the one and only jacket...I'll never sell. Literally could never replace it and it came to me on a luck shot from Hell.
There's no denying Will was a grade A certified dickhead. But the folks at SB are punching out some good stuff. At the end of the day tho, having owned a fair number from both...only the Aero still occupies space in my closet, albeit one with a tainted past.

 

[ButteMT61]

My 2011 Aero 50's HBD in FQHH is a beast that nobody will ever make again. It was circa doosh as well. I won't sell it for a number of reasons, and I do believe it was Julie who made it too. Would I buy anything from him again in any label? Never.
But I have to admit that his son was a nice kid. Hope he's learned from his Dad's mistakes.

 

[zebedee]

If I wanted something really 'custom' done, I'd go to SB (I have yet to try Johnson Leathers, but I'm either in the UK or Hong Kong- it's a bit tricky to get things in without duties from the US). The patterns that look 'Aero' I'd never order because I'd rather have the genuine item and give my money to the people who came up with the original patterns.

Were SB to cease using Aero patterns, I would not see any reason not to buy from them. The custom jacket they made me was perfect.

 

[BobJ]

All the venom aimed at SB is based on the assumption that they are still using the patterns that Will took. This is an important point - anybody know the answer?

They obviously are good pattern makers themselves, have come out with some very original and creative patterns, and are adept at all kinds of customizations and alterations, so it would be no big deal for them to develop their own patterns to replace the ones Will brought with him.

Does anybody here know if they are still using any of Will's stolen patterns?

 

[Sloan1874]

They are. There's nobody in the company with the skills or ability to make patterns and it's a fine art that takes years to learn the tailoring required to do it properly. If they stopped using them, they'd lose all but a few of the designs.

 

[Seb Lucas]

The SB patterns that are just like Aero's patterns haven't changed - what reason would we have to believe that their identical Highwayman pattern, for instance, is now a different identical pattern to the identical pattern used earlier?

 

[BobJ]

It's ludicrous to say there's nobody in the company with the skills or ability to make patterns... because they've made many of them. They've made one off custom jobs for private customers, new patterns in collaboration with other companies, and have not ceased to add the the range of their own collection.

 

[BobJ]

"what reason would we have to believe that their identical Highwayman pattern, for instance, is now a different identical pattern to the identical pattern used earlier?"

Good question. How do you know it's still an identical pattern? Has anybody asked them?

We do know that they have bent over backward to distance themselves from Will Lauder. They changed their name, changed their website, deleted patterns from their collection, and added patterns to their collection. Why would they do all that and still use a few of his stolen patterns?

 

[Sloan1874]

A few? Basically, they've been using Aero's 50s and 30s HB blocks to tweak and add pockets for much of their collection - the point about AL/SB was that it's OM was to replace Aero when it went to the wall, and it's never been able to get away from that.
They're even using the *wrong* sleeves from Aero's old patterns on Cabourn's stuff. No amount of 'how do you know' gets around the fact that they are objectively still using Aero's IP. As they say, if quacks like a duck and walks like a duck...

 

[Peacoat]

I usually stay out of these frays, but I feel the need to comment. Even if SB is no longer using the stolen Aero patterns (and I think it is), the genesis of the company would be enough to cause me to never buy from them, irrespective of the passage of time and the development of new untainted patterns. I will give my business in that part of Scotland to Aero.

 

[Plumbline]

There are those on here who are fiercely loyal to one manufacturer or another .... equally there are those who are not (myself included). There are those on here for whom a product purchase is a morally guided affair (regardless of the nature or basis of the morals) .... and there are those for whom it is not (myself included).

Trying to persuade one group of the righteousness of the other approach is like trying to persuade a Christian that the Muslim faith is the right way and that their chosen approach to religion is flawed. It's doomed from the start.

Just MHO

 

[Big J]

Seriously?
We're actually discussing this?
Again?

It's as if the Fedora Lounge doesn't have a memory, or we're stuck in some pointless feedback loop or something.

It happens every freakin' year!

There's always some guy saying;
1. It's all about over-zealous brand loyalty, or,
2. It's trial by internet mob justice, or,
3. It's a conspiracy to tarnish the good name of SB, but,

What's really happening is this;
1. SB's low prices aimed at undercutting Aero sucker in someone who can't afford the extra for an Aero (and ethics).
2. Said sucker knows what's happened between Aero and SB, and feels guilty about putting price before ethics, so...
3. That sucker comes to the Lounge to talk about their SB jacket because they need someone to tell them it's alright ('don't worry, I understand).
4. Except that most people don't understand, so they prefer to say nothing at all and pass on the SB threads, until...
5. Said sucker starts blaming it on 'ulterior motives' and unfair conspiracies against SB.

Look, I understand you went for the cheaper jacket, you feel guilty about it, and now you're trying to deflect from the issue because you need approval and positive affirmation of what you've done.

Gee, that's a pretty pathetic portrait of a man trying to look 'manly' in an 'authentic' leather jacket. Why bother? Just buy some cheap made in China fleece at Walmart.

 

[AllanP]

actually LW told me veg tanned leather is the least "manly" thing there is, so I don't feel very masculine at all

 

[Edward]

OKay, folks, this one has run it's course, let's move on to something else...