Varieties of overcoat...

[Alan Eardley]

Baron,

Very comprehensive. Thanks.

Alan

 

[Marc Chevalier]

Here’s a very unusual 1960s covert coat I found on eBay. It’s very rare to find covert coats that are double-breasted. The fabric is wool whipcord.

 

[AlanC]

^ Very nice, Marc. Who was the maker? That's not something you'd find readily as a stock item.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

so that cuff/hem stitching. What's the story? Any history to it, or pure Frippery?

bk

 

[Marc Chevalier]

^ Very nice, Marc. Who was the maker? That's not something you'd find readily as a stock item.

Thanks! It appears to have been custom made. No labels of any kind. The lining is a very bright reddish/orange rayon satin. Very "dandy."

.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

so that cuff/hem stitching. What's the story? Any history to it, or pure Frippery?

bk

It was meant to be practical. Since the coat was originally worn while on horseback, the coat's cuffs and skirt bottoms would be the first things to fray and wear out (from repeated rubbing against the reins, saddle, and the horse's flanks). The rows of stitching were meant to slow down the process of fraying in those vulnerable areas of the coat. They literally held the fabric together by reinforcing it.

.

 

[Micawber]

One of the theories is that it would allow staff to self alter their garment by cutting back to the appropriate line of stitching.

 

[Micawber]

Here’s a very unusual 1960s covert coat I found on eBay. It’s very rare to find covert coats that are double-breasted. The fabric is wool whipcord.

That's an interesting mix.

 

[Edward]

It was meant to be practical. Since the coat was originally worn while on horseback, the coat's cuffs and skirt bottoms would be the first things to fray and wear out (from repeated rubbing against the reins, saddle, and the horse's flanks). The rows of stitching were meant to slow down the process of fraying in those vulnerable areas of the coat. They literally held the fabric together.

.

I've also seen another version of the story... according to what I read, they started out as groundskeeper's coats, and the extra stitching allowed them to be cut to size without fraying or the need for the expense of a tailor for the common man. They were alter adopted by the gentry, with the advantages you describe. I don't know enough to know whether this is correct, but both seem plausible (and plausibly both could be true, they're not mutually exclusive).

Either way, one of those in the right colour could be a tempting addition to the wardrobe at some future date!

 

[David Bresch]

I am having a tweed Ulster made up: I am not sure that the belt is an essential feature. Any thoughts?

 

[Baron Kurtz]

From the Esquires Encyclopaedia quote I quoted above, and from Alan's post, i'd say a full or half belt was indispensible. But then, they could be describing what was a fashion and not part of the "official" Ulster.

The really indispensible factor, though, should be extremely heavy cloth.

bk

 

[Jerekson]

I found this a while back.

http://www.surplusandadventure.com/ishop/800/shopscr189.html

 

[AlanC]

I found this a while back.

http://www.surplusandadventure.com/ishop/800/shopscr189.html

Looks like an absolute steal.

 

[Hal]

It's interesting - and laudable - that the man in Jerekson's picture is carrying a hat.

 

[Edward]

Looks like an absolute steal.

I'm sure it's great quality wise - I've had some beautiful jackets over the years which were military surplus. At that price I'd be tempted too, just a pity there's not better sizing information - I'm usually a "large" in an overcoat, but sometimes sizes run small and I can be an XL.

 

[Jovan]

Not sure what type of coat this is considered, but it merits posting anyways because of its simple elegance.

Magnoli Clothiers Tweed Overcoat

 

[Edward]

That Magnoli tweed is lovely. Very similar in both cloth and design to the one worn by Christopher Lloyd as Uncle Fester in the first two Addams Family movies, actually. I like it a lot - it'd look great on a university campus with a brown suit in the winter months. Eventually I'd like to have Magnoli make me up a db herringbone grey chesterfield for black / white tie wear in winter, but there's quite a few higher priorities in my wardrobe first. Not least a plus one on the suit front, as over the last six months two of my four suits have reached the end of their lives. (The second one to go died last weekend when I discovered the trousders had holed at the crotch. Jacket's still plenty wearable, though, so that's gone into the daily rotation wardrobe...).

 

[Alan Eardley]

Trench coats of WW1

For some interesting photographs of actual WW1 trenchcoats the reader can do no better than refer to Chambers, S.J (2005) Uniforms & Equipment Of The British Army In World War I, Schiffer Publications. Also, if you are in the UK, the Centre for First World Studies at Birmingham University under the directorship of Dr John Bourne has an interesting archive of WW1 photographs and records of uniforms and equipment.

Here is an interesting article (thanks to Paddy for reminding me of this) from Old Magazine Articles. Although (as is pointed out) there were variations between coats, the construction details in the West End Gazette article (which would cover the London oufitters that many officers would use) should leave the reader in no doubt as to what a trench coat should include in its make up. Note the reference to 'khaki drill' as the fabric and the types of lining. Not like the sissy trench coats of today, eh?
http://www.oldmagazinearticles.com/articles.php?cid=80&get=3
Note also from the article that the trench coat style seems to have been taken up enthusiastically in the US and that it began to evolve design differences not related to its original use as early as 1918. In other words, it had become a 'fashion garment' (ugh!).


Alan

 

[Sin Khan]

Outstanding, Thank You.

Outstanding post my friend, I have read 3 of the articles posted and I will most assuredly read them all. It is as I and others have said before. We have to start from scratch and relearn how to make clothing that works in function and does what it was originally intended to do.

:cheers1:

 

[Alan Eardley]

Re-engineering the trenchcoat

Sin Khan,

Thank you. Without giving too much away, there are a few initiatives by Loungers relating to the manufacture of trench coats with original features.

I can mention my own, briefly. I used to work for a company in the UK (formed in 1924) that made riding, aviation and motorcycling coats at that time. I am in touch with a few of 'the old crew', who are all approaching retirement. We have discussed forming a small company to manufacture outdoor or motorcycling clothing in 'the old way', using traditional methods, materials and skills. This much, we all agree on.

However, we realise that we can only expect to produce a very limited range of items (we will be working 'part-time') and we just can't agree on what we should make! The most popular suggestion is to recreate exactly the original riding suit (or jacket) for which our old company was famous, but as the 'brand' is now owned by a large (and protective) Italian company, I am very wary of the legal implications of this - I have no wish to lose my hard-earned retirement pension to Italian lawyers.

My suggestion is to recreate a riding coat (like a trench coat) made by the company in the late 1920s in 'Macintosh' cloth (which was later developed into the famous rubberised canvas coat). We have the old skills, we have the old technology, we can't get the exact old material but we can get it close enough. The problem is, we need a good original to copy and they are very rare. Watch this space.

By the way, may I ask, is your user name after the village of that name in Myanmar (Burma)?

Alan