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Which one side-by-side comparison of two Leather Jackets

58panheadfan

One Too Many
Messages
1,539
Location
Switzerland
Left.

Fit can be debated and is very subjective, both imo fit you great. The designs and such on both are great. I think most people would be happy with either jacket if it looked like that on them, I know I would be.

I'll expound on what @ton312 has said, although I think it's not so much a craftsmanship/workmanship/quality thing, but to his point it's more of an attention to detail thing. 5* builds jacket to a spec sheet and goes about it in a workmanlike way, not a craftsman/artist way. So while they're technically proficient and produce a well made product (generally), they're just something about them that lacks character.

The proportions of the chest pocket, location relative to the d pocket, the design of the belt loops, the angles on the bottom edge of the d pocket, the general proportions of the d pocket relative to the jacket, the pleating on the sleeve, you can tell someone took time to make the small adjustments here and there to get it to look right, while the other was reading through the spec sheet and delivered and what was asked.

It's like tying a tie, you always need to know how to tie it in more than one way, some ties make a tighter smaller knot requiring you to double knot to get a more proportionate knot, and also straightening it. Details.

And that's before we get into the leather character, it's not even close.

In a vacuum and not in a side by side, I would celebrate that 5*, it's a piece worthy of admiration especially the way it fits on you. But if we're doing a critical side by side, I think we can clearly see where the extra dough goes.
Excellent post, you couldn't have said it better and got to the point! Perfect :)

Another Eetail between the ELMC and the FiveStar is the angle of the right side Pocket. With the ELMC it is perfect with the FiveStar I can hardly take anything out of the bag because it is too vertical. And other fact as mentioned before the breast zipper is too high and wrong positioned. You pointed it out perfectly, 5* builds jacket to a spec sheet and I forgot to mention exactly position of chest zipper :( But in the end I'm still happy how the Jacket turned out overall...
 
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Marc mndt

I'll Lock Up
Messages
6,859
What bothers me about the ELMC is the tight cuff opening when zipped. I have very slim wrists but I can hardly zip the Jacket properly. The cuff opening is just 3.55" (9 cm) when zipped!
It's indeed tight, but nothing out of the ordinary (when compared to vintage).

770EDC17-8F71-4FD9-8E8E-3A9390337F7A.jpeg
50C8CBF5-DE23-4025-9797-A5C56D9F32CD.jpeg
 

TheDonEffect

Practically Family
Messages
610
Excellent post, you couldn't have said it better and got to the point! Perfect :)

Another Eetail between the ELMC and the FiveStar is the angle of the right side Pocket. With the ELMC it is perfect with the FiveStar I can hardly take anything out of the bag because it is too vertical. And other fact as mentioned before the breast zipper is too high and wrong positioned. You pointed it out perfectly, 5* builds jacket to a spec sheet and I forgot to mention exactly position of chest zipper :( But in the end I'm still happy how the Jacket turned out overall...


Thanks! Yeah the 5* jacket is a well executed garment that in a vacuum anyone would be satisfied with. But when side by side, you then see the nuances that add up to alot, which actually caught me off guard with how much delta there is in overall impact when you add up all the nuances.

It's definitely not a knock against 5*, you get more than what you paid for, but it also means you're not going to have a discerning stylist eye ensuring everything is just right. In a design like this with a ton of details, and therefore opportunity for artistic expression, it really shows the difference whereas a simple half belt or a military repro those differences won't be as significant.
 

58panheadfan

One Too Many
Messages
1,539
Location
Switzerland
Thanks! Yeah the 5* jacket is a well executed garment that in a vacuum anyone would be satisfied with. But when side by side, you then see the nuances that add up to alot, which actually caught me off guard with how much delta there is in overall impact when you add up all the nuances.

It's definitely not a knock against 5*, you get more than what you paid for, but it also means you're not going to have a discerning stylist eye ensuring everything is just right. In a design like this with a ton of details, and therefore opportunity for artistic expression, it really shows the difference whereas a simple half belt or a military repro those differences won't be as significant.
You are absolutely right, I thought I had thought of everything and in the end had to find out that it wasn't like that. Of course, I could now order a jacket that takes all these small flaws into account, but I won't do that. For me it's good the way it is with my D-Pocket, I have neither the desire nor the nerves to get involved with an order* again. Five Star Leather did a good job, no question, they did what I was asking for.

*That's why I selflessly mentioned my experiences in the Five Star Thread and passed on many details for ordering my D-Pocket. So an interested buyer can benefit from it, that is also a good use of this forum, it has many members with a lot of experience, who are also willing to share.
 

jadub

A-List Customer
Messages
319
Location
Saco, Maine
Is comfort and wearability a part of this? I find that wearing my leather jackets is an exercise in acceptance, which makes sense to a certain extent. Minimal stretch can inhibit mobility or even comfort. Aero patterns, as has been mentioned many times, can cause the jacket to rest on the neck which is uncomfortable. My new to me FL has limited range of motion forward and backward when my arms are raised to horizontal, and it has a beak. This affects driving to some degree, not the beak. My PHWM is also limiting in this way but I’m still 10 lbs too big for that jacket IMO. My untrained eye tells me the ELMC may be more confining than the 5*. On the other hand I f the ELMC pattern is spot on then it may actually provide the snug fit that I prefer without being overly restrictive. Wearing the jackets over time will change fit too though and what feels and looks poorly fitted now my settle right in. To be clear I think the fit of both jackets looks great from here.

Time will also change the way the leather looks and how desirable it is to me. Leather is one of if not the main reasons I’m interested in these jackets. So if the leather quality isn’t there then for me the whole point of having a leather jacket vanishes. I LOVE seeing and feeling leather age. I feel the whole dynamic of the jacket changes. I almost prefer a jacket or pair of shoes be uncomfortable when I first get them. For me it means, if I’m lucky the product will grow and adapt to me. My RW blacksmiths are great. They were uncomfortable to begin with but now they’re amazing. I did have to swap out the sole to a softer sole because my back couldn’t handle walking for an hour on pavement with the original soles. Tip, they did a terrible job stitching the new soles on the left shoe. Seek an out of house cobbler for all your cobbling needs.

I understand price point is important and will affect leather quality the most. But what about comfort?
 
Messages
17,146
Location
Chicago
I’ll offer up a tri-by-side:):):)
All Black halfbelts.
D80835BD-9DAC-4487-9F01-18D6B4C51A4E.jpeg
EA4C4100-D197-4F62-992D-A5C0473C2CB2.jpeg
843FDAF8-93E1-4D81-A309-0AE1CD1F796D.jpeg

I have placed them in the order of my ranking.
1-Regius Windward
Superior pattern, design and construction, wins out across the board.
2-Aero OG Herc- outstanding build, slightly restrictive pattern, superb leather, safe collar
3-ELMC Californian- horrible pattern, weak collar, beautiful leather, superb construction.

I think this is a more fair fight as all three are in the same tier. I kind of feel like putting 5 Star against ELMC is like putting Tyson in the ring with Don Knots.
 

MrProper

My Mail is Forwarded Here
Messages
3,885
Location
Europe
I’ll offer up a tri-by-side:):):)
All Black halfbelts.
View attachment 490157 View attachment 490156 View attachment 490158
I have placed them in the order of my ranking.
1-Regius Windward
Superior pattern, design and construction, wins out across the board.
2-Aero OG Herc- outstanding build, slightly restrictive pattern, superb leather, safe collar
3-ELMC Californian- horrible pattern, weak collar, beautiful leather, superb construction.

I think this is a more fair fight as all three are in the same tier. I kind of feel like putting 5 Star against ELMC is like putting Tyson in the ring with Don Knots.
All three cool, but the first picture wins.
 

TheDonEffect

Practically Family
Messages
610
You are absolutely right, I thought I had thought of everything and in the end had to find out that it wasn't like that. Of course, I could now order a jacket that takes all these small flaws into account, but I won't do that. For me it's good the way it is with my D-Pocket, I have neither the desire nor the nerves to get involved with an order* again. Five Star Leather did a good job, no question, they did what I was asking for.

*That's why I selflessly mentioned my experiences in the Five Star Thread and passed on many details for ordering my D-Pocket. So an interested buyer can benefit from it, that is also a good use of this forum, it has many members with a lot of experience, who are also willing to share.


I think you reached the same conclusion most of us have with 5*. You did the experiment and came out of it like hmm maybe it's best that I stay out of the kitchen and let the chefs cook. In the words of Steven Jobs, you have to show people what they want, because the reality is people don't really know what they want, or at least how to achieve it.

I've been mulling over getting a half belt, and a part of me wants to order on through 5*. It's a simple design, and my fit needs are very forgiving, so I'm confident 5* can nail it for me. But then I take a step back, this is not like buying undershirts, for me anyway buying a leather jacket is a big treat to myself that if I'm very lucky I'll do once every year or two, so why not just spend a little more and buy something that resonates with me more.

Again, not a knock on 5* because I respect what Shawn is doing, these days I just prefer to buy local as much as I reasonably can, or support businesses that I vibe with. They dont have to save the world or anything, maybe they're the ones who pioneered an idea, or have an interesting business mission, etc. Especially with luxury goods like a leather jacket, it's kinda cool to get more than just a garment, like knowing who made it, how it was made, etc.
 

dudewuttheheck

I'll Lock Up
Messages
4,277
I’ll offer up a tri-by-side:):):)
All Black halfbelts.
View attachment 490157 View attachment 490156 View attachment 490158
I have placed them in the order of my ranking.
1-Regius Windward
Superior pattern, design and construction, wins out across the board.
2-Aero OG Herc- outstanding build, slightly restrictive pattern, superb leather, safe collar
3-ELMC Californian- horrible pattern, weak collar, beautiful leather, superb construction.

I think this is a more fair fight as all three are in the same tier. I kind of feel like putting 5 Star against ELMC is like putting Tyson in the ring with Don Knots.
This just demonstrates why im so excited to get my Regius jacket. His patterns look so spot on.

IMO the Eastman looks much better @58panheadfan . The 5 star looks better than the fits a lot of people get in other jackets, but the eastman just looks more flattering
 

TheDonEffect

Practically Family
Messages
610
I’ll offer up a tri-by-side:):):)
All Black halfbelts.
View attachment 490157 View attachment 490156 View attachment 490158
I have placed them in the order of my ranking.
1-Regius Windward
Superior pattern, design and construction, wins out across the board.
2-Aero OG Herc- outstanding build, slightly restrictive pattern, superb leather, safe collar
3-ELMC Californian- horrible pattern, weak collar, beautiful leather, superb construction.

I think this is a more fair fight as all three are in the same tier. I kind of feel like putting 5 Star against ELMC is like putting Tyson in the ring with Don Knots.


Another reminder I need to put down the cakes and pick up the weights.

Man, when I scrolled through, the ELMC jumped out at me, that leather and how it drapes on you, goodness.

Are we talking pre-prison Tyson, or face tattoo no Freddie Roach Tyson?
 
Messages
17,146
Location
Chicago
Another reminder I need to put down the cakes and pick up the weights.

Man, when I scrolled through, the ELMC jumped out at me, that leather and how it drapes on you, goodness.

Are we talking pre-prison Tyson, or face tattoo no Freddie Roach Tyson?
Any Tyson. Even Tyson tied to chair. LOL. The ELMC really is a terrible pattern IMO. Super tight sleeve and shoulder. I wanted to love it. I did not. Felt like a leather shirt.
 

photo2u

Call Me a Cab
Messages
2,050
Location
claremont california

Love that Herc.! I think the position of the main zipper to the d pocket is important. However, the most important factor to me is the orientation of the d pocket's zipper, regardless of the angle of the main zipper. The more vertically the zipper's d pock is, the harder it is for me to use it when I am riding. In contrast, the zipper on my LW trojan's d pocket is just too horizontally positioned for my use and taste. Five stars did a great job with this build.
 
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TheDonEffect

Practically Family
Messages
610
Any Tyson. Even Tyson tied to chair. LOL. The ELMC really is a terrible pattern IMO. Super tight sleeve and shoulder. I wanted to love it. I did not. Felt like a leather shirt.

Yeah, Tyson could whoop me with just his stare, lol.

The fit on the Windward to me looks just right and functional, and the collar on the ELMC does leave alot to be desired, but my goodness does that jacket look good anyway, lol. What leather is that?
 
Messages
17,146
Location
Chicago
Yeah, Tyson could whoop me with just his stare, lol.

The fit on the Windward to me looks just right and functional, and the collar on the ELMC does leave alot to be desired, but my goodness does that jacket look good anyway, lol. What leather is that?
Tbh I don’t know. I always felt the stuff ELMC uses is awfully similar to Aero’s Vic. Had it been cut a bit more jacket like in the sleeves and shoulders, I *might still own it.
 

navetsea

I'll Lock Up
Messages
6,711
Location
East Java
I like the non parallel d pocket zip of the 5* better than parallel on the eastman, I also like the chest pocket width on the 5* better but as usual it is always "too high and too far toward the armpit" for my personal taste, silhouette wise I think eastman wins. also from the back eastman looks neater while 5* has lower back crumples, I think its not just about the length but the small panels on the side of the kidney panel should be cut differently to make the kidney panel sticks out a little to the back side toward the hem to accommodate your backside, flaring backward a little.
 

58panheadfan

One Too Many
Messages
1,539
Location
Switzerland
@58panheadfan - just thought you might like to know, you are now famous on the 5* website
https://www.fivestarleather.us/products/vintage-d-pocket-road-master-men-jacket-black-steerhide

I hid the price here but I can see why you were tempted for sure:

View attachment 490216
In fact, it seems like I've made it onto a leather jacket manufacturer's order page for the first time. Well, if you present yourself in social media (insta etc.) you have to expect something like that. But they should have asked me before :)
 

58panheadfan

One Too Many
Messages
1,539
Location
Switzerland
I’ll offer up a tri-by-side:):):)
All Black halfbelts.
View attachment 490157 View attachment 490156 View attachment 490158
I have placed them in the order of my ranking.
1-Regius Windward
Superior pattern, design and construction, wins out across the board.
2-Aero OG Herc- outstanding build, slightly restrictive pattern, superb leather, safe collar
3-ELMC Californian- horrible pattern, weak collar, beautiful leather, superb construction.

I think this is a more fair fight as all three are in the same tier. I kind of feel like putting 5 Star against ELMC is like putting Tyson in the ring with Don Knots.
For me, Regiu's Windward wins this "battle"!
 

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