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Will your new jacket ever look vintage?

greenc

Familiar Face
Messages
79
@Marc mndt I understand your point about the Indigo Y'2 but I think I'd still prefer this than the greying of a Vanson along the scuffs - this dye is obviously designed to do this and it's definitely a look, but I hear where you're coming from.

But that raises the question about the aging of raw jackets like Mr. Freedom's Campus. The sun does its work but the first drop of coffee you spill on it shows up as well.

The third day I owned my Thedi CR I had half a cup of black coffee blown across one of the arms and I figured it was done for - that I'd have to have coffee blown across the rest of it to match. I dried it off and within two minutes it's as if it never happened.

On a raw jacket it would have been a disaster.
 

greenc

Familiar Face
Messages
79
How fast a jacket will show wear depends on a lot of factors. It depends on the animal, goatskin being much more hard wearing than lambskin for instance.

It also depends on the tannage. Both Buco's shown below are steerhide but their hides were tanned differently, one having a black core the other having a brown core. The black core leather is much harder wearing than the brown core.

The black core jacket was probably worn a lot more than the brown core jacket yet its leather is in much better condition.

Then there's individual differences, one hide to another. Some hides are more dense than others.

Then there's the thickness of the topcoat.

All of the above also holds for today's leathers.

View attachment 613969 View attachment 613968 View attachment 613967 View attachment 613970
@Marc mndt I do love the look of the black core Buco, that's really beautiful - it's showing great grain, and plenty of wrinkles, creases and character.

Maybe that's partly what I meant from the outset...hmmmm, maybe I could rephrase the question to whether any of today's jackets will be worn in steady enough rotation to look like you black core Buco in 50 years.

That's a gorgeous jacket, is it really as black in real life as it appears in the photos?
 

greenc

Familiar Face
Messages
79
I’ll answer your thread title question and leave the answers to your other questions and observations to yourself.
Yes, i think this one does.
Was cool when bought new in ‘73….still fits, gets worn and still kinda cool looking in ‘24.
I don’t know if it’s vintage but it’s a survivor.
50 years is a long f***ing time to wear any jacket for anyone.
So…you tell me.
B
View attachment 613960 View attachment 613961 View attachment 613963 View attachment 613965
I dig that you bought it new in '73, that it still fits, and that you've worn it around for a long time. Very cool.
 

greenc

Familiar Face
Messages
79
While we're on the subject of wear, do any of you have experience with Vanson's Octagon horsehide?

I saw a thread from 2015 about a Model B in that hide and think it looks fantastic. It looks stiff AF at first but does it ever really soften down with continuous, regular wear?

I'm in the market for a CR and I like Vanson's approach with the Model B.
 

El Marro

My Mail is Forwarded Here
Messages
3,523
Location
California
I think that very few of my jackets will look worn while they are in my possession, not many are worn much and some not at all. One exception is my IH horsehide riders jacket. The damn thing is so comfortable that I reach for it instinctively on my way out the door. An although it is designed to be a teacore jacket it has shown remarkably little color loss in the few years that I’ve had it.
IMG_0291.jpeg

Here it is when it was still quite new.
 

greenc

Familiar Face
Messages
79
I think that very few of my jackets will look worn while they are in my possession, not many are worn much and some not at all. One exception is my IH horsehide riders jacket. The damn thing is so comfortable that I reach for it instinctively on my way out the door. An although it is designed to be a teacore jacket it has shown remarkably little color loss in the few years that I’ve had it.
View attachment 613978
Here it is when it was still quite new.
IH is Iron Heart, yes? How do you find the horsehide? Is it stiff-ish but still soft? It's great looking and I love the sheen. Well done.
 

bigmanbigtruck

One of the Regulars
Messages
202
I think that very few of my jackets will look worn while they are in my possession, not many are worn much and some not at all. One exception is my IH horsehide riders jacket. The damn thing is so comfortable that I reach for it instinctively on my way out the door. An although it is designed to be a teacore jacket it has shown remarkably little color loss in the few years that I’ve had it.
View attachment 613978
Here it is when it was still quite new.
That's some sick graining on the front panels
 

Boyo

Call Me a Cab
Messages
2,223
Location
Long Island NY
IH is Iron Heart, yes? How do you find the horsehide? Is it stiff-ish but still soft? It's great looking and I love the sheen. Well done.
the leather in the riders jacket is soft and smooth like nothing else I've owned. one of the nicer off the rack jackets you can own..
 

bigmanbigtruck

One of the Regulars
Messages
202
Maybe that's partly what I meant from the outset...hmmmm, maybe I could rephrase the question to whether any of today's jackets will be worn in steady enough rotation to look like you black core Buco in 50 years.

This jacket could very well belong to someone here. But just to give you an e.g. this LW J23 looks well worn with beautiful graining as others were pointing out what you may be looking for.
BucoJ23Best-4.jpg


According to the description, this is just from 2 years of riding use (and maybe through a decent amount of rain?). If not riding, this may take longer, but definitely not 50 years lol
 
Last edited:

greenc

Familiar Face
Messages
79
the leather in the riders jacket is soft and smooth like nothing else I've owned. one of the nicer off the rack jackets you can own..
Thank you @Boyo, are you in North America and if so did you purchase it locally?
This jacket could very well belong to someone here. But just to give you an e.g. this LW J23 looks well worn with beautiful graining as others were pointing out what you may be looking for.
BucoJ23Best-4.jpg


According to the description, this is just from 2 years of riding use (and maybe through a decent amount of rain?). If not riding, this'll take longer, but definitely not 50 years lol
Not 50yo and yet it looks like it has stories to tell - the owner got up to some things, got into a few scrapes, a bit of the business, and I think that's cool. Thank you for sharing that.
 

Aloysius

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3,705
This jacket could very well belong to someone here. But just to give you an e.g. this LW J23 looks well worn with beautiful graining as others were pointing out what you may be looking for.
BucoJ23Best-4.jpg


According to the description, this is just from 2 years of riding use (and maybe through a decent amount of rain?). If not riding, this'll take longer, but definitely not 50 years lol

This is how Schott’s current horsehide looks with water and wear in a few weeks’ time. I love the grain and creases that popped on mine.
 

bigmanbigtruck

One of the Regulars
Messages
202
This is how Schott’s current horsehide looks with water and wear in a few weeks’ time. I love the grain and creases that popped on mine.
Not 50yo and yet it looks like it has stories to tell - the owner got up to some things, got into a few scrapes, a bit of the business, and I think that's cool. Thank you for sharing that.

Yup, keep in mind I'm not implying you need to spend LW $$$ to get this look. Like @Aloysius mentioned, Schott can get you there. Just remember to use water to help accelerate the process.
 

dudewuttheheck

I'll Lock Up
Messages
4,341
dudewuttheck, what do you attribute the Buco's preservation to?

Was it barely worn? Worn carefully? Is the leather of a different quality than today and doesn't show the same kind of wear?

On a call with Vanson recently they indicated that today's leather is tanned differently than decades ago, which makes sense - different technology, perhaps different chemicals and additives, etc.

It's likely a purely subjective conversation but is 50yo horsehide substantially better than new horsehide?
From what I can tell, it just wasn't worn all that much. That's what it seems like anyway. It depends on the horsehide. My late 30s/1940 Sears Hercules has ridiculously nice and thick leather, the leather on my 49/50 Buco is also amazing, but I've seen mid to late 50s HH that isn't very nice at all.
I don't mid teacore but too much of a good thing can be too much. I don't like how Vanson's go grey along the scuffs, @dudewuttheheck I've seen your video about your C2 and I remember you not being a fan of that either.
I am indeed not a fan of that. I'm wearing the jacket right now and I love the jacket itself, but am not a fan of thst aspect.
Barely worn. I've owned Buco like that, still own Beck like that, etc.

A jacket that is worn will show it. Even if it doesn't have a different-colored core, you'll see creases and other kinds of wear.


Depends on the horsehide, then and now. And in many cases 60s cowhide was nicer than the 50s horsehide it replaced.


I don't want to speak for DWTH but my impression from the forum is that his own views/experience on vintage has changed since he got the C2 which was his first. (An experience many of us go through.)
Yes my views have changed to a degree, but not entirely. I thought for a while that vintage was cooler, but was nervous about condition and information. That was why I hadn't jumped in previously. The biggest change was getting some help, increasing my knowledge, and discovering how well vintage cuts fit me.

I still hate the grey core on the Vanson, but the pattern more than makes up for it. Plus, I prefer it to the fake, quick aging leathers, but I've always hated those. Even when I was buying mostly Japanese jackets, I didn't like quick fading leathers. I actually don't want my jackets to fade at all if I can help it.
 

Aloysius

My Mail is Forwarded Here
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3,705
I am indeed not a fan of that. I'm wearing the jacket right now and I love the jacket itself, but am not a fan of thst aspect.
It’s definitely not the most flattering type of distressing (for lack of a better term), but the weird thing with it is while I don’t like it up close, I think it looks cool on someone else.

Pecards‘ tinted cream is not a bad solution; it’s not actually a dye so there’s no splotchiness or paint, just a smoother transition.
 

Boyo

Call Me a Cab
Messages
2,223
Location
Long Island NY
Thank you @Boyo, are you in North America and if so did you purchase it locally?
Iron Heart Jackets are sold in the 6 Self edge stores in North America.. but if you buy direct from Iron Heart, they have a "virtual store" in the USA so there aren't any import fees and delivery is pretty quick..
 

rogueclimber

One of the Regulars
Messages
260
Location
Marina del Rey
Iron Heart Jackets are sold in the 6 Self edge stores in North America.. but if you buy direct from Iron Heart, they have a "virtual store" in the USA so there aren't any import fees and delivery is pretty quick..

HMMM.... the above quote seems to be in response to a quote attributed to me, but actually said by @greenc
 

Bfd70

I'll Lock Up
Messages
4,088
Location
Traverse city
Hope you're all looking at the start of a good day, or you're halfway through one now depending on where you live.

I find myself thinking about collecting on a fairly regular basis. I'd love to be a one watch, one jacket kinda guy, but I can't seem to stop poking around and looking for the next version. I enjoy what I have but there's something obviously appealing about the hunt, which I'm sure many of you relate to.

And I think it's made all the more interesting with the notion that there's a certain amount of money to spend and an opportunity cost with each purchase - if you buy this now it means you can't have that other one that you find tomorrow. So for me I do lots and lots of research and examining and thinking about which example I'd like best and inevitably I get sidetracked by something else shiny I need to go investigate over there and then later I come back to the original thing I was looking for and the process continues.

And sometimes it takes a long time, which is okay and really fun, and frustrating, and fun.

If I owned every jacket or watch that I purchased in my head with imaginary money I would literally need a second home to store all of it in. But the hunt is the stuff.

I have to be in Paris at the start of the Olympics for a work project and I'm counting the days until I can get to the Paris Flea Market (Le marché aux puces de Saint-Ouen à Clignancourt) for a good poke around.

So that brings me this - I'm not a vintage jacket or watch guy to own, but I can appreciate the look on other people and I see the appeal - I don't think the deep-V cuts of the 1950s double riders do me any favors on my frame. They're too exaggerated but they look fabulous on some people.

And part of the look is that those jackets have been worn hard - they're scratched and the grain has popped and they just look like they have stories to tell. But so too, a lot of those pieces have been mistreated over the years - they've gotten wet on a consistent basis and left to dry however, they've been involved in motorcycle accidents, people have used them while painting or working in factories or on cars, they've not been babied and it shows. And they've likely never been cleaned or conditioned or hung on proper hangers or anything else we currently do to take care of things today.

I'm guessing that from the 1920s to the end of the 1960s people just had one leather jacket that they wore all the time everywhere - they didn't have a rotation, which brings me to my subject line above...

Will any of us ever wear our new-newish leather jackets enough to turn them proper vintage? Will anything in our closets that we bought unblemished ever look like a 1950s beat-up, well-loved, well-lived in jacket? Will your new Schott, or Lewis Leathers, or Vanson, or 5-Star, or Flathead, or whatever ever show the signs of an ill-spent youth?

And this is particularly true for people with a big rotation of jackets. If you have more than one piece in your closet will you put enough wear into any of them that in 50 years time someone gets excited about a vintage Y'2, or Vanson Octagon, or Schott Double Riders, etc from 2024? Are the good old days gone in that respect?

What do ya'll think?
No one here will.
 

greenc

Familiar Face
Messages
79
From what I can tell, it just wasn't worn all that much. That's what it seems like anyway. It depends on the horsehide. My late 30s/1940 Sears Hercules has ridiculously nice and thick leather, the leather on my 49/50 Buco is also amazing, but I've seen mid to late 50s HH that isn't very nice at all.

I am indeed not a fan of that. I'm wearing the jacket right now and I love the jacket itself, but am not a fan of thst aspect.

Yes my views have changed to a degree, but not entirely. I thought for a while that vintage was cooler, but was nervous about condition and information. That was why I hadn't jumped in previously. The biggest change was getting some help, increasing my knowledge, and discovering how well vintage cuts fit me.

I still hate the grey core on the Vanson, but the pattern more than makes up for it. Plus, I prefer it to the fake, quick aging leathers, but I've always hated those. Even when I was buying mostly Japanese jackets, I didn't like quick fading leathers. I actually don't want my jackets to fade at all if I can help it.
Thanks much for that, I think the C2 is a killer jacket and in the smaller sizes (34, 36) there are always some available on Mercari, etc.

Do you have any experience with Octagon leather? Is it grey at its core or does the reddish-brown go all the way through? Wondering if it wears in similar fashion.
 

greenc

Familiar Face
Messages
79
Iron Heart Jackets are sold in the 6 Self edge stores in North America.. but if you buy direct from Iron Heart, they have a "virtual store" in the USA so there aren't any import fees and delivery is pretty quick..
Thank you Boyo, that's good information - I'll look at Self Edge first and then check out Iron Heart's virtual store. That's cool of them to offer it.
 

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