Ship John

[Marc mndt]

I think its ironic for people who routinely spend 1000+ plus on leather jackets to poo-poo the Wills jacket simply bc of its price. Comparing the Wills jacket to a Cahartt seems akin to comparing an Aero to a Wilson leather/rando mall jacket. The quality of materials used, time spent preparing the garment, and labor involved are miles apart.

I'm not criticizing the jacket because of its price. I'm criticizing because of the look. Clothing can be stylish or utilitarian, sometimes both. Imo this has nothing to do with style. It might be utilitarian so that's why I made the comparison with Carhartt (which to me looks like a similar jacket but more refined). Of course tastes differ and this is nothing more than my opinion, but I just don't see what's attractive about this jacket. Could be because I'm European and this is 'Americana'?

 

[Monitor]

I'm not criticizing the jacket because of its price. I'm criticizing because of the look. Clothing can be stylish or utilitarian, sometimes both. Imo this has nothing to do with style. It might be utilitarian so that's why I made the comparison with Carhartt (which to me looks like a similar jacket but more refined). Of course tastes differ and this is nothing more than my opinion, but I just don't see what's attractive about this jacket. Could be because I'm European and this is 'Americana'?

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Agreed.

Heavy canvas aside, it's difficult to even consider calling this jacket designed. Number of elements from another jackets simplified to the extreme make this jacket somehow devoid of even the most basic utilitarian design thus other than the quality of material of course, which isn't proprietary to the maker in question, for $500+ I personally would love to get a bit more out of my clothes, aesthetics-wise.

But that's just my take on the matter.

 

[navetsea]

honestly I agree, while I can clearly see the quality and the thickness of the material, but design wise to my own taste is very utilitarian, not even the collar size or shape looks "designed" . I mean french chore coat to my eyes looks a lot more stylish makes the wearer looks like a painter that is painting on canvas, while this jacket look like the wearer is doing painting on construction site... my own impression sorry.

 

[Marc mndt]

To me the SJ Wills jacket is akin to this ($530) RMC raincoat. They've taken a utilitarian design, payed a craftsman a living wage to produce the garment locally and used 'quality nylon'. I have no doubt it's a superbly made jacket. But that doesn't make it stylish/elegant/fashion, no matter how hard the marketing department tries to sell it as such.

 

[marker2037]

I'm not criticizing the jacket because of its price. I'm criticizing because of the look. Clothing can be stylish or utilitarian, sometimes both. Imo this has nothing to do with style. It might be utilitarian so that's why I made the comparison with Carhartt (which to me looks like a similar jacket but more refined). Of course tastes differ and this is nothing more than my opinion, but I just don't see what's attractive about this jacket. Could be because I'm European and this is 'Americana'?

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Agreed. What I feel they are really selling is this idea of a rugged, Americana workwear lifestyle to guys who don't actually live it. Meanwhile, the actual blue collar workers are buying Carhartt today, tomorrow, and yesterday.

I'm not saying this is not a better made jacket than Carhatt though, I have no doubt it is more refined. But I just have a hard time equating the design elements to the price as I don't really believe the materials used plus labor really equate to the cost of this jacket.

P.S. Not sure how they are calling this color "tan". It's basically grey-green. Not really attractive if you ask me. I'll take my Rouge Territory Supply jacket all day over this.

 

[Ayeteael]

I'm not criticizing the jacket because of its price. I'm criticizing because of the look. Clothing can be stylish or utilitarian, sometimes both. Imo this has nothing to do with style. It might be utilitarian so that's why I made the comparison with Carhartt (which to me looks like a similar jacket but more refined). Of course tastes differ and this is nothing more than my opinion, but I just don't see what's attractive about this jacket. Could be because I'm European and this is 'Americana'?

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I think summarizing the Wills as a more refined, better built Carhartt coat is accurate. I caught a podcast with the owner of SJ who said he designed the Wills bc he kept destroying other, inferior jackets while working on some trade (forget which one). I also completely agree that our respective culture and experiences shape what we view as "good design" or aesthetically pleasing. There's something uniquely "American" about SJ's interpretation of the chore coat that speaks to me. It elevates the common work coat much like Japanese denim brands elevated Levi's 501's through superior materials and production methods.

Let's also be real. We don't actually need to be doing the rugged work the clothes are designed for to enjoy or justify them. You don't need to be a cowboy to wear cowboy boots, an engineer to wear engineers, a trucker to wear a trucker jacket, a motorcyclist to wear a crosszip, etc. etc. Clothes are meant to be enjoyable and enjoyed. Full stop.

I think what SJ has done with the Wills is fantastic, but not everyone has to like it. I only spoke up bc I wanted to present a counterpoint. I also wanted the criticism to be fleshed out, which they have been to some degree. Mission accomplished.

I'm a fan of SJ's new simplified ordering process and I plan to get one. I'll report back here once I do, and if the jacket doesn't live up to the hype, I'll be sure to let you guys know.

 

[Bfd70]

I don’t have a problem with the price point. I feel fortunate and happy to spend money with a company providing living wages to its employees. My eye roll is the ship john knit cap that is just a random knit hat with a ship john tack put in or the dehen collab where they just change the buttons and up charge. It’s a dehen coat. I don’t see how the “ship john touch” makes it any better and is just a matter of insta marketing. I think black bear union is another more ludicrous example of this.

 

[Bfd70]

Btw. He was a welder. There may be 3 hipster welders out there who actually wear a $500 jacket to weld in. Everyone else can just buy this.
https://www.amazon.com/QeeLink-Leat...XXXX-Large/dp/B07Q2YLHV4?tag=weldingchamps-20

 

[El Marro]

I just don't see what's attractive about this jacket. Could be because I'm European and this is 'Americana'?

No, I don’t think that’s the case. Through your collection of jackets I see that you have a keen appreciation for “Americana”. This jacket just isn’t your style, as simple as that.
As it happens, I am one of those construction workers who people say this jacket was (or was not) made for. I like it, and I have thought about ordering it but what stopped me was the waxed shell. I own two Filson Oilskin jackets and I do not particularly like them. They are heavy, they don’t breathe, and they are not particularly waterproof either. I would never wear them at work nor anywhere that I planned on moving and sweating. That said, I will keep an eye on the Wills if they release it in a fabric that strikes my fancy I may very well order one someday.

 

[Carlos840]

No, I don’t think that’s the case. Through your collection of jackets I see that you have a keen appreciation for “Americana”. This jacket just isn’t your style, as simple as that.
As it happens, I am one of those construction workers who people say this jacket was (or was not) made for. I like it, and I have thought about ordering it but what stopped me was the waxed shell. I own two Filson Oilskin jackets and I do not particularly like them. They are heavy, they don’t breathe, and they are not particularly waterproof either. I would never wear them at work nor anywhere that I planned on moving and sweating. That said, I will keep an eye on the Wills if they release it in a fabric that strikes my fancy I may very well order one someday.

I spend a lot of my time doing forestry work and on construction sites doing heating, i wouldn't even think about wearing a 450$ Wills wilst doing either of these thing.
I can get a full carhartt trousers + jacket for 150$ and they last really well, i get more than a year from a pair of duck pants and my last detroit jacket lasted 3 or 4 years before it gave up, why would i spend 3 times that on a single jacket that i doubt would last much longer?

To me this Wills jacket is in the same league as the old french "bleu de travail", nowadays it is closer to cosplay than workwear...

 

[Monitor]

I spend a lot of my time doing forestry work and on construction sites doing heating, i wouldn't even think about wearing a 450$ Wills wilst doing either of these thing.
I can get a full carhartt trousers + jacket for 150$ and they last really well, i get more than a year from a pair of duck pants and my last detroit jacket lasted 3 or 4 years before it gave up, why would i spend 3 times that on a single jacket that i doubt would last much longer?

To me this Wills jacket is in the same league as the old french "bleu de travail", nowadays it is closer to cosplay than workwear...

That's the thing - Why deliberately subject my $550 jacket to extreme punishment that would no doubt shorten its lifespan to the extreme, if it would not provide me with any additional benefits over any Carhartt - or indeed, any such coat intended for work - other than an empty wallet which, considering the line of work in which one of these jackets is supposed to be used in an intended manner, would never allow nor justify the purchase of such a pricey piece in the first place.

Let's not forget that despite all the workshop selfies and tales of hand-crafted goods, Ship John is a Good Art HLYWD authorized dealer. The whole thing is a lovable charade and The Wills fits right in.

 

[Bfd70]

That's the thing - Why deliberately subject my $550 jacket to extreme punishment that would no doubt shorten its lifespan to the extreme, if it would not provide me with any additional benefits over any Carhartt - or indeed, any such coat intended for work - other than an empty wallet which, considering the line of work in which one of these jackets is supposed to be used in an intended manner, would never allow nor justify the purchase of such a pricey piece in the first place.

Let's not forget that despite all the workshop selfies and tales of hand-crafted goods, Ship John is a Good Art HLYWD authorized dealer. The whole thing is a lovable charade and The Wills fits right in.

Is there a back story on good art? I just know it’s muy expensive.

 

[Monitor]

Is there a back story on good art? I just know it’s muy expensive.

Not a particularly particular one, no.
The owner, Josh, who was into silver jewelry & piercings, started his own company in 1990 which thrived ever since. It's simply silver jewelry, 100% luxury and I personally like it. The bracelets are cool. I don't know why heritage scene picked up on it tho as pretty much every site related to what we wear here has Good Art accessories in some shape or form.

 

[barnabus]

nowadays it is closer to cosplay than workwear...

I think you've hit upon something here that holds true for a lot of what we like, if we're honest.

Recently I've deliberately tried to move away from having "nice" things that I wouldn't dare wear for their purported purpose, and actually use everything I have as daily beater wear.

I'm pleased I've done that, but it doesn't mean I expect anyone else to.

 

[jglf]

The Wills jacket is definitely a utility design that was tweaked with better materials, design, and construction to be more hipster-esque. It’s not any different than guys on here wearing Wesco, White’s, and Nicks boots. I can vouch that Ship John products are on par with Japanese makers when it comes to construction and top notch materials. He style might not be for everyone but they don’t skimp on quality.

 

[Monitor]

Isn't canvas dirt cheap?

 

[jglf]

24oz waxed American canvas is going to be a lot more than 12oz Chinese made canvas. It’s no different than Japanese denim brands charging $300-$400 for a pair of jeans.

 

[Marc mndt]

It’s no different than Japanese denim brands charging $300-$400 for a pair of jeans.

Those are selvedge, made on vintage shuttle looms (=small quantities thus pricier).

 

[jonesy86]

I spend a lot of my time doing forestry work and on construction sites doing heating, i wouldn't even think about wearing a 450$ Wills wilst doing either of these thing.
I can get a full carhartt trousers + jacket for 150$ and they last really well, i get more than a year from a pair of duck pants and my last detroit jacket lasted 3 or 4 years before it gave up, why would i spend 3 times that on a single jacket that i doubt would last much longer?

To me this Wills jacket is in the same league as the old french "bleu de travail", nowadays it is closer to cosplay than workwear...

And now they come in more than just blue.

https://lemontsaintmichel.fr/en/work-jacket-80

 

[Will Zach]

My only quibble with Ship John has been that I don't like their stuff stylistically. I cannot criticize their pricing because they are charging what the market bears and have been good at it. I don't mind them using tent-gauge canvas - hey, I just bought pants made of 25-oz canvas so who am I to throw stones at their materials.... But the look of their jackets I don't like.