42, The Jackie Robinson Biopic.

[Mr Vim]

Wow,

This was not even on my radar until now, but this looks very good.

And plus, it has an almost unrecognizable Harrsion Ford!

My mom met Jackie Robinson once, said he was a great man. That always stuck with me and I hope to learn more about him.

[video=youtube;iP3G4E2ael8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iP3G4E2ael8[/video]

 

[dhermann1]

My mom used to go to Dodgers games at Ebbetts Field during his hey day. She said he drove the opposition pitchers crazy when he was on the basepaths, just running back and forth taking his lead. And electrifying presence on the ball field. Can't wait to see this, either.

 

[skyvue]

I wonder if any of those inclined to bemoan Hollywood remakes will have a problem with this one.

 

[LizzieMaine]

The 1950 "Jackie Robinson Story" wasn't a very good picture -- Robinson was a great baseball player, but he wasn't an especially dynamic actor, and he had a high, reedy voice that didn't quite fit his ferocious on-field image. The script was, to say the least, steeped in manipulative cliches, and turned much of the supporting cast into caricatures.

I'll be first in line to see this new version. I had a chance years ago to talk with Clyde Sukeforth, the scout who was Branch Rickey's emissary in scouting Robinson for the Dodgers, and who managed Robinson's first two games in the major leagues, and he had a lot to say about what went on behind the scenes with the other players and how they responded to their new teammate. I'll be especially interested in seeing how all of that is portrayed.

 

[scotrace]

Just saw this. Well worth it for so many excellent performances.

 

[Tomasso]

I've always felt that there was an inequity in the distibution of credit for breaking the color line in baseball. Jackie gets the lion's share leaving Rickey the scraps. Kinda like a shortstop making a spectacular feilding play and giving the first baseman the credit for simply catching the ball for the put out. Not to mention that Bill Veeck and Larry Doby were breaking the color line in the AL in the same season and they are all but forgotten.

 

[Worf]

I've always felt that there was an inequity in the distibution of credit for breaking the color line in baseball. Jackie gets the lion's share leaving Rickey the scraps. Kinda like a shortstop making a spectacular feilding play and giving the first baseman the credit for simply catching the ball for the put out. Not to mention that Bill Veeck and Larry Doby were breaking the color line in the AL in the same season and they are all but forgotten.

I'm not so sure I'm buying that. Your analogy would give the Medal of Honor to the General who planned the battle and not the Sergeant who fought it almost single handed. Near as I can tell noone was going at Rickey "spikes high" or coming in "high and tight" under his chin. But that's my opinion. Also I believe the ordeal cost Robinson years off his life and helped him lose his son to drugs... hard living in the shadow of a saint.

Worf

 

[LizzieMaine]

I'm not so sure I'm buying that. Your analogy would give the Medal of Honor to the General who planned the battle and not the Sergeant who fought it almost single handed. Near as I can tell noone was going at Rickey "spikes high" or coming in "high and tight" under his chin. But that's my opinion. Also I believe the ordeal cost Robinson years off his life and helped him lose his son to drugs... hard living in the shadow of a saint.

Worf

Other than a few snide "great white father" editorials in The Sporting News, Rickey came thru the integration period unscathed. He had the advantage of already being a larger-than-life media personality in New York, and the New York papers were more likely to attack him for being a payroll-pinching cheapskate than they were for his status as an integration promoter.

Most of the other owners were opposed to Rickey in 1946, but for National League owners, at least, when they saw the money Robinson was bringing to their gates during Dodger road trips, their criticism evaporated pretty quick. The main reason the National League kept the edge over the American in signing black talent is that the owners, whatever their personal views, saw the dollar signs up close. The American League, on the other hand, when Larry Doby turned out to be a mediocre gate attraction for the Indians, and Willard Brown and Hank Thompson were no attraction at all with the Browns, didn't see much financial incentive to integrate -- and dragged its collective heels for years as a result. It wasn't just the novelty of black players that drew the fans -- it was Robinson's personal dynamism and gate appeal that made the difference.

I remember watching Robinson throw out the first ball at the 1972 World Series, just before he died, and thinking he looked like some kind of ancient patriarch -- he had snow white hair, was blind, and was leaning on a cane. He was only 53 years old.

 

[Tomasso]

I view Jackie much the way I view Neil Armstrong. Able men, chosen from a group of equally able men, to perform a task that upon completion propelled them to iconic status. But it was NASA and Rickey who were the driving forces behind these achievements. I don't think that this view diminishes the accomplishments of either men; it simply puts them into the proper perspective.

 

[LizzieMaine]

I view Jackie much the way I view Neil Armstrong. Able men, chosen from a group of equally able men, to perform a task that upon completion propelled them to iconic status. But it was NASA and Rickey who were the driving forces behind these achievements. I don't think that this view diminishes the accomplishments of either men; it simply puts them into the proper perspective.

In that respect, I agree -- all else being equal, if Larry MacPhail was still running the Dodgers in 1945, Robinson would never have been signed. He was too fiery a personality for Bill Veeck, who needed to be center of attention himself. He *might* have been signed by Clark Griffith in Washington, who had been presenting black players in the guise of "Cubans" for several years prior to Robinson, but Griffith was an old man and not known as a boat-rocker, hence his sneaking around the color line without directly challenging it. Personality-wise, he and Robinson wouldn't have matched at all. Rickey was the only owner at the time who was psychologically-equipped to challenge the color line with Robinson.

The third part of the Robinson equation that doesn't often get due credit is Leo Durocher. No other manager in the game in the spring of 1947 was better-qualified to handle the situation the Dodgers faced, and the media carnival surrounding him effectively distracted attention away from Robinson at a time when media attention was something he really didn't need. It was Durocher's problems with gamblers that got most of the press attention during spring training, and not the racial tension on the ballclub. Durocher and Robinson ended up despising each other after Leo went to the Giants, but in the spring of 1947, they were made for each other.

 

[Tomasso]

I He *might* have been signed by Clark Griffith in Washington

Then Griffith would have surely frosted George Preston Marshall (the owner of the Redskins and his tenant at Griffith Stadium) who was the staunchest supporter of the color line in the NFL.

Tidbit: The NFL color line was broken in 1946 (a year before MLB) with the signing of Kenny Washington, who was a teammate of Jackie's at UCLA.

 

[HudsonHawk]

Then Griffith would have surely frosted George Preston Marshall (the owner of the Redskins and his tenant at Griffith Stadium) who was the staunchest supporter of the color line in the NFL.

Tidbit: The NFL color line was broken in 1946 (a year before MLB) with the signing of Kenny Washington, who was a teammate of Jackie's at UCLA.

The color line in the NFL is somewhat soft, as they had black players in the league upon its founding. There were black players all the way up until 1933, but then there were none until Washington in 1946. The NFL didn't have quite as long a history of segregation as MLB did, though there were black players in baseball prior to Robinson as well.

 

[LizzieMaine]

Leaving aside the black players who appeared in organized ball in the 19th Century, probably the earliest Major League player who can be confirmed as having African ancestry was Bobby Estallela, a light-complected Afro-Cuban outfielder who spent parts of nine seasons with the Senators, Browns, and Athletics between 1935 and 1949. There was also speculation about Alex Carrasquel, a Venezuelan relief pitcher who had several good years with the Senators in the late thirties, and about Hi Bithorn, a pitcher with the Cubs just before the war who was presented as a "Puerto Rican," but who supposedly admitted to at least one writer that his mother was an African-American.

None of this detracts from Robinson's accomplishment, of course -- he was, indisputably, the first 20th Century major leaguer to be unambigously presented to the public as a black man.

 

[Tomasso]

The color line in the NFL is somewhat soft, as they had black players in the league upon its founding. There were black players all the way up until 1933

The NFL purged itself of black players in 1926, among them was Fritz Pollard who coached and played for an NFL championship team. Paul Robeson (hell of a man that time has forgotten) used his NFL salary to pay his way through Columbia law school.

 

[Worf]

The NFL purged itself of black players in 1926, among them was Fritz Pollard who coached and played for an NFL championship team. Paul Robeson (hell of a man that time has forgotten) used his NFL salary to pay his way through Columbia law school.

Gone perhaps but never forgotten. His picture adorns a wall in my house. It's a shame that Robinson felt compelled to denounce Robeson during the McCarthy era witch hunts. The two were great athletes and men who suffered for their beliefs... sad.

Worf