Aero Leather Clothing trial update

[xOUTLAWx]

This thread is quite an interesting read on small business drama. Including all kind of tfl orwellian level stuff.

Yeah, but in Japan the bow would have been the end of it. No prosecutions, no compensation. Take it from me, bows, tears, and 'I'll do better from now on', are a pretty easy get out of jail, and nothing changes.

The president of the power company that runs Fukushima, left the office sick when news of the disaster happened, and flew to the other end of the country for a couple of months. One teary bow, and 'I'm sorry, there is no excuse', and to this day not one person charged, despite admitting that they were aware of safety failures but didn't take action so as not to cause alarm.
Our way is better.

Yeah I fully agree. Moral hypocrisy is part of the culture.

Peoples Watch Hollywood movies like The last samurai and they slurp every stereotypes about japan and want to beleve their culture and country is so mutch ahead of the west. (blame the japanophiles too) In fact don't scratch the surface or you will be deceved. Like many part of the world.

 

[Big J]

This thread is quite an interesting read on small business drama. Including all kind of tfl orwellian level stuff.



Yeah I fully agree. Moral hypocrisy is part of the culture.

Peoples Watch Hollywood movies like The last samurai and they slurp every stereotypes about japan and want to beleve their culture and country is so mutch ahead of the west. (blame the japanophiles too) In fact don't scratch the surface or you will be deceved. Like many part of the world.

So true.
The Connery/Snipes movie 'Black Rain' has got so much to answer for; virtually everything they same about 'Japanese culture' is the opposite of reality.
'In Japan, they fix the problem, not the blame', says Connery. Even Japanese people fall off their chairs laughing at that one.

 

[Stand By]

Field day!?!... I can tell you that its been far from a field day, it’s been one of the hardest thing we could of ever gone through, either as a business or a family.
As for Will lauders reputation he’s brought this onto himself and to his family, I’ve had to see the pain and distress my family have been through, my mother has aged 20 years in the last 2 years and the last 5 months has been in and out of hospital.
The “grand sale” you talk of is all items bought and paid for by Aero and then stolen by Will Lauder, We are now forced into selling the recovered goods at heavily reduced prices, these goods were almost never recovered and we will never know exactly how much was taken. The sale will never recover everything.
As for the PR, we would rather none of this whole sorry story had ever happened.

I really did not want to make any comments on this thread, and have bit my lip on a number of occasions, but felt I had to comment here. ( This is not an official Aero post )

Thank you Hide'N'Seek for deciding to reply and please feel assured that I meant no disrespect to you or your family; I said in my post a while ago (page 104, or thereabouts) that I found this whole saga to be regrettable and I extended my sentiments of sadness to everyone involved - and I was sure to include you and your family at the time as I stated that this must have been a very hard time you as well. I was never saying that this was ever a trivial matter.
I stand by all comments I ever make both past and present (which is why I always make them carefully) and those sentiments remain true today.

However, I will address this one last time. And believe me: this is my last post. (and I'm logging off as soon as I hit Submit Reply).

My objections were always to the tone of this thread being counter to the spirit of The Fedora Lounge, and by extension, to it's appropriateness. Fanch: I hear you when you say you are passionate about Aero. I am just as passionate about this place and its integrity.
I have watched ungentlemanly and unsportsmanlike (a term once laden with the utmost gravity - now rendered meaningless today) candour prevail - and many would disagree that was ever the case and I fully expected it. But someone had to call off-side - so I did. And I rather suspected that it would fall on deaf ears, which it has, but I tried anyway.

You see, I've said for a long time that the world's gone mad and these contemporary days of moral relativism - where everyone has an outspoken opinion with no regard for a greater good or standards or values - they pervade everything and we see it everywhere; a flagrant disrespect of old values, rules of the road, dress codes, speech (never more vulgar), netiquette - you name it. Nobody cares anymore.
And people like me are left feeling that I eschew the shallow waters of modern life and so I come here to escape and enjoy some finer things that are more akin to the principles of better days gone by.

To me, this is like all the smokers outside my window. (Bear with me on this one).
I work in a hospital which is a smoke-free site. There is a protocol on this (created in 2003 - so it's not new) and signs are everywhere telling people not to smoke and the fines range from $305 to $5000 and you can't be ignorant of this being so. It isn't possible; so if you come to this place, these are the rules.
And yet, scores of people smoke around me every single day and I have to walk and ride through smoke that I find unpleasant and noxious. And it's against the rules - but people really don't like it when I object. In fact, they hate it.
Now, we staff were told in emails that when we come across these smokers, we should pleasantly and respectfully inform these people not to smoke; which I did for 12 years - until just two months ago.
I would be polite and remind them that this is a no smoking site - and I would then run a gamut of unpleasantness with everything from "F**k off", "Mind your own business", "If security doesn't care, why do you?", "Go bother someone else" - or they'd just ignore me - or turn their backs and chuckle.
I would then point out that the air conditioner they're standing in front of services the second floor Pharmacy and they can smell their smoke up there.
No response.
And 2 months ago I gave up speaking up. I learned that not one - NOT ONE - ticket has ever been handed out for smoking on-site. I've been wasting my time and my breath all this time - because there is no will at the hospital end to enforce the rules - and, well, that is how people are these days. They have no regard for anyone but themselves (so Pharmacy gets to stink 'cos people want to smoke their cigarette).
And it's the same here.
This place has begun to stink because people are having too much fun and flouting rules of behaviour - and they're all breathing each other's smoke, so nobody cares/notices about that - and there is no barman here to remind anyone that there are Rules of the House on this. And so when I speak up (both here and at work), nobody listens because they don't have to and they're enjoying themselves.

And it is painfully clear to me now that, just as speaking up and trying to be clear and articulately, diplomatically and politely (hyperbole to some, sure. Whatever) appeal for a return to nothing more than some decency has gained no traction at all, I see that this place is not for me. It has changed. The fact that I am walking away from TFL should tell you all that something is amiss.
Although it claims to be a place where earlier 20th century gentlemanly values pervade, The Fedora Lounge too is infested with all that is wrong with modern society and the moral relativism that infects it. I'm really sorry that so many of you can't see it.

I used the noun "Heretic" on purpose as people on this thread have behaved like a zealous church where anyone who dares to even question anything or show some independence of thought from the parish is met with an uninviting disdain and suspicion ("Do you know more than us?" "Just checking." You don't need a degree in linguistics to read the insidious tone in that) to the point that these voices of independence all choose to either apologize or fall silent one-by-one - but the familiar people here say that there's nothing off-side going on - now or ever.
So it must be true! Right?

So that's the new standard of play here and it's considered acceptable.
But those aren't my standards it's not why I've enjoyed being here and, after many years of happy participation, clearly, this is no longer a place for me anymore. Like any pub or bar where I've stopped enjoying my drink because of the mood of the place, it's time to walk away.

You all be nice to each other.

Stand By over and out.

 

[Jägernaut]

I think you guys are seeing a different reality than I. And if it is maliciousness toward WL in reality, I think he earned that to. No one here is dogging his family. The inclusion or omission of any comments has absolutely no bearing on his family anyway.

 

[GregO]

I have read with interest (and chimed in now and then) this whole saga since it started. But I have an important question...

When will Aero get their jackets back, and, more to the point, when will they show up on the "Sale" page??? I want one!

 

[Dr H]

I have read with interest (and chimed in now and then) this whole saga since it started. But I have an important question...

When will Aero get their jackets back, and, more to the point, when will they show up on the "Sale" page??? I want one!

Good to see the foregoing post prompted a thoughtful response - have to get the priorities right...right?

 

[nick123]

Thank you Hide'N'Seek for deciding to reply and please feel assured that I meant no disrespect to you or your family; I said in my post a while ago (page 104, or thereabouts) that I found this whole saga to be regrettable and I extended my sentiments of sadness to everyone involved - and I was sure to include you and your family at the time as I stated that this must have been a very hard time you as well. I was never saying that this was ever a trivial matter.
I stand by all comments I ever make both past and present (which is why I always make them carefully) and those sentiments remain true today.

However, I will address this one last time. And believe me: this is my last post. (and I'm logging off as soon as I hit Submit Reply).

My objections were always to the tone of this thread being counter to the spirit of The Fedora Lounge, and by extension, to it's appropriateness. Fanch: I hear you when you say you are passionate about Aero. I am just as passionate about this place and its integrity.
I have watched ungentlemanly and unsportsmanlike (a term once laden with the utmost gravity - now rendered meaningless today) candour prevail - and many would disagree that was ever the case and I fully expected it. But someone had to call off-side - so I did. And I rather suspected that it would fall on deaf ears, which it has, but I tried anyway.

You see, I've said for a long time that the world's gone mad and these contemporary days of moral relativism - where everyone has an outspoken opinion with no regard for a greater good or standards or values - they pervade everything and we see it everywhere; a flagrant disrespect of old values, rules of the road, dress codes, speech (never more vulgar), netiquette - you name it. Nobody cares anymore.
And people like me are left feeling that I eschew the shallow waters of modern life and so I come here to escape and enjoy some finer things that are more akin to the principles of better days gone by.

To me, this is like all the smokers outside my window. (Bear with me on this one).
I work in a hospital which is a smoke-free site. There is a protocol on this (created in 2003 - so it's not new) and signs are everywhere telling people not to smoke and the fines range from $305 to $5000 and you can't be ignorant of this being so. It isn't possible; so if you come to this place, these are the rules.
And yet, scores of people smoke around me every single day and I have to walk and ride through smoke that I find unpleasant and noxious. And it's against the rules - but people really don't like it when I object. In fact, they hate it.
Now, we staff were told in emails that when we come across these smokers, we should pleasantly and respectfully inform these people not to smoke; which I did for 12 years - until just two months ago.
I would be polite and remind them that this is a no smoking site - and I would then run a gamut of unpleasantness with everything from "F**k off", "Mind your own business", "If security doesn't care, why do you?", "Go bother someone else" - or they'd just ignore me - or turn their backs and chuckle.
I would then point out that the air conditioner they're standing in front of services the second floor Pharmacy and they can smell their smoke up there.
No response.
And 2 months ago I gave up speaking up. I learned that not one - NOT ONE - ticket has ever been handed out for smoking on-site. I've been wasting my time and my breath all this time - because there is no will at the hospital end to enforce the rules - and, well, that is how people are these days. They have no regard for anyone but themselves (so Pharmacy gets to stink 'cos people want to smoke their cigarette).
And it's the same here.
This place has begun to stink because people are having too much fun and flouting rules of behaviour - and they're all breathing each other's smoke, so nobody cares/notices about that - and there is no barman here to remind anyone that there are Rules of the House on this. And so when I speak up (both here and at work), nobody listens because they don't have to and they're enjoying themselves.

And it is painfully clear to me now that, just as speaking up and trying to be clear and articulately, diplomatically and politely (hyperbole to some, sure. Whatever) appeal for a return to nothing more than some decency has gained no traction at all, I see that this place is not for me. It has changed. The fact that I am walking away from TFL should tell you all that something is amiss.
Although it claims to be a place where earlier 20th century gentlemanly values pervade, The Fedora Lounge too is infested with all that is wrong with modern society and the moral relativism that infects it. I'm really sorry that so many of you can't see it.

I used the noun "Heretic" on purpose as people on this thread have behaved like a zealous church where anyone who dares to even question anything or show some independence of thought from the parish is met with an uninviting disdain and suspicion ("Do you know more than us?" "Just checking." You don't need a degree in linguistics to read the insidious tone in that) to the point that these voices of independence all choose to either apologize or fall silent one-by-one - but the familiar people here say that there's nothing off-side going on - now or ever.
So it must be true! Right?

So that's the new standard of play here and it's considered acceptable.
But those aren't my standards it's not why I've enjoyed being here and, after many years of happy participation, clearly, this is no longer a place for me anymore. Like any pub or bar where I've stopped enjoying my drink because of the mood of the place, it's time to walk away.

You all be nice to each other.

Stand By over and out.

+1. Over and out myself.

 

[pawineguy]

I think you guys are seeing a different reality than I. And if it is maliciousness toward WL in reality, I think he earned that to. No one here is dogging his family. The inclusion or omission of any comments has absolutely no bearing on his family anyway.

I went back to his original post when he first tried to quiet this discussion, and he was sharper with Sloan for posting the trial narrative than he was with Will. Aero was included in a list of people he felt sorry for (Will, Will's family, Will's employees, Aero) but the rest of it was a "mind your own business, it doesn't concern you" speech with a bit of "as long as someone treats me well I don't care how he treats others." (He later doubled down on this in a subsequent post)

This discussion may have had some tangential detours along the way, but I think it's been as civil as possible considering the circumstances, the passion and in some cases the personal relationships involved. Frankly, I expected much more finger pointing and "I told you so", considering some of the discussions around here over the past couple of years. Many members showed remarkable restraint in my opinion.

 

[Capesofwrath]

I think you guys are seeing a different reality than I. And if it is maliciousness toward WL in reality, I think he earned that to. No one here is dogging his family. The inclusion or omission of any comments has absolutely no bearing on his family anyway.

A couple of days ago one of the more egregious posters here opined that his wife deserved to have problems paying her mortgage now her husband is banged up because she married him after he sacked her from Aero.

I paraphrase but the gist of it was she deserved all she got.

 

[jacketjunkie]

I am with Stand By, Nick123 and Capesofwrath,

all that had to be said, has been said and this thread has a tendency to go south. WL has been sentenced, justice has been served, let's call it a day and move on and leave the aftermath of these affairs be the concern of these concerned.

That said, my empathy is with everyone at Aero and the stress they have been through, but I do not see how this thread serves them in any way (or any other purpose, for that matter).

 

[Jägernaut]

I hope that you people who are done with this thread but continue to return and you supporters of said people know that you are helping to keep this thread at the top of the list.

 

[Superfluous]

A couple of days ago one of the more egregious posters here opined that his wife deserved to have problems paying her mortgage now her husband is banged up because she married him after he sacked her from Aero.

I paraphrase but the gist of it was she deserved all she got.

I posted the following regarding Lauder’s wife and I stand by it:

. . . Third, I do not believe that Lauder’s wife was wholly unaware of Lauder’s criminal conduct. The overwhelming evidence present in Lauder’s home, coupled with the other indicia of wrongdoing, strongly suggests to me that Lauder’s wife knew what was going on -- perhaps not all of it, but at least some of it.

Fourth, Lauder’s wife has enjoyed an elevated and undeserved standard of living derived from Lauder’s criminal conduct. She has enjoyed the fruits of Lauder’s crimes in the form of substantially greater household income and associated expenditures. She didn’t deserve the extra money any more than Lauder deserved it. She didn't deserve the items purchased with the stolen money any more than Lauder deserved the purchases. She should consider herself fortunate if she is not required to return any of her ill-gotten gains.

I personally find it difficult to believe that Lauder’s wife knew nothing about Lauder's criminal conduct. There was ample evidence of Lauder's conduct right under his wife's nose -- their house was literally filled with stolen clothing. Perhaps she never inquired -- perhaps Lauder lied and she believed him. Nevertheless, it is suspicious to say the least.

Additionally, Lauder's wife likely enjoyed the fruits of Lauder's theft. The Lauders had substantially greater disposable income derived from Lauder's criminal enterprise, which benefited Lauder's wife. Stated another way, Lauder’s wife – directly or indirectly – likely spent money that did not belong to the Lauders; she spent Aero’s money.

Lauder is solely and exclusively responsible for all adverse consequences endured by his family, which further illustrates just how egregious Lauder's conduct was. It is undeniably tragic that Lauder's child will suffer because of the criminality perpetrated by his father. The kid did nothing to deserve it. Lauder, and Lauder alone, is to blame. Lauder disregarded the best interests of his child. One can have both sympathy for the child and disgust for Lauder – there feelings are not mutually exclusive.

Lastly, there is nothing offensive or "unsportsmanlike" about making the foregoing observations.

 

[Superfluous]

I went back to his original post when he first tried to quiet this discussion, and he was sharper with Sloan for posting the trial narrative than he was with Will. Aero was included in a list of people he felt sorry for (Will, Will's family, Will's employees, Aero) but the rest of it was a "mind your own business, it doesn't concern you" speech with a bit of "as long as someone treats me well I don't care how he treats others." (He later doubled down on this in a subsequent post)

“Justice will not be served until those who are unaffected are as outraged as those who are.”

― Benjamin Franklin

 

[Capesofwrath]

“Justice will not be served until those who are unaffected are as outraged as those who are.”

― Benjamin Franklin

In what way are you affected then?

 

[Capesofwrath]

I posted the following regarding Lauder’s wife and I stand by it:



I personally find it difficult to believe that Lauder’s wife knew nothing about Lauder's criminal conduct. There was ample evidence of Lauder's conduct right under his wife's nose -- their house was literally filled with stolen clothing. Perhaps she never inquired -- perhaps Lauder lied and she believed him. Nevertheless, it is suspicious to say the least.

Additionally, Lauder's wife likely enjoyed the fruits of Lauder's theft. The Lauders had substantially greater disposable income derived from Lauder's criminal enterprise, which benefited Lauder's wife. Stated another way, Lauder’s wife – directly or indirectly – likely spent money that did not belong to the Lauders; she spent Aero’s money.

Lauder is solely and exclusively responsible for all adverse consequences endured by his family, which further illustrates just how egregious Lauder's conduct was. It is undeniably tragic that Lauder's child will suffer because of the criminality perpetrated by his father. The kid did nothing to deserve it. Lauder, and Lauder alone, is to blame. Lauder disregarded the best interests of his child. One can have both sympathy for the child and disgust for Lauder – there feelings are not mutually exclusive.

Lastly, there is nothing offensive or "unsportsmanlike" about making the foregoing observations.

How do you know any of that? What an unpleasant post, and how in keeping with your others.

 

[IXL]

In what way are you affected then?

I believe he one of the "outraged," referenced in Franklin's quote, as opposed to being one of the"affected."
As Franklin stated, the "outraged" are as necessary to ensuring justice is served, as are the "affected."

 

[tonypaj]

I reckon everybody should just go and have a beer and calm down. Outraged or affected. Or on the other side.

 

[IXL]

^^^Light or dark?

 

[Fanch]

Guinness

 

[tonypaj]

Do they make russet beer? I'm OK with everything but Weizenbeer, I freely admit that I prefer a Budweiser to that. Shoot me