An esoteric detail of the pre-WWII suit

[Wolfmanjack]

Having had no reponse to my thread, An elusive detail..., posted in General Attire & Accouterments, I am revising it and posting it here.

I have just finished reading a very interesting discussion of pre WWII fashion history, FASHIONS OF THE 1920s, 30s, 40s, by Carol Nolan at http://www.murrayontravel.com/carolnolan/fashionhistory.html This is a fascinating site. Incidentally, Ms. Nolan offers bespoke suits in a variety of pre WWII styles, including Oxford suits, jazz suits, and sacque suits.

Here is an elusive detail of pre-WWII fashion that I have always wondered about, but never had anyone to ask. Having recently joined your fascinating and informative BB, I am delighted to have your vast fashion expertise at my disposal.

The item I am referring to is a white, starched cotton or linen lining/piping around the front neck area of a gentleman?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s vest. I am led to understand that this was very much a social-status symbol, worn only by upper-class gentlemen. Here is a detail from a portrait of President Woodrow Wilson wearing one of these:

Can any of you tell me what this garment is called? Do you know how these were attached to the vest? Am I correct that they were made of starched cotton or linen? Where could I get one? How could I make one? Am I correct about the social significance of this item? I think this is quite a ?¢‚ǨÀúspiffy?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢ little detail that would lend a very distinguished touch to an early 1900?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s outfit.

Incidentally, how would you characterize the fashion adopted by conservative gentlemen like Wilson? Surely he would be too conservative to wear an Oxford suit or a jazz suit; and too formal to adopt a sacque suit for daily wear.

I am simply delighted to have someone to consult on these matters.

Regards,

Wolfmanjack

 

[Matt Deckard]

There was a large discussion on this piping in the London Lounge. I have some pictures to re-dig up and should have a response to you soon. You see the piping on rare occasion on some of the English set, many times on those wearing morning dress to opening day at Ascott park so the style is aparently still available from some English tailors.

 

[Wolfmanjack]

Thanks for following up on my question, Matt. I'll look forward to hearing more. Meanwhile, I've submitted my registration with the London Lounge.

By the way, I've come across a suit that would suit your taste quite nicely, to wit: three piece, single breasted, with peak lapels. You'll find it at: http://www.SierraTradingPost.com/xq/asp/base_no.48399/dept_id./est./qx/product.htm

Regards,

Jack

 

[scotrace]

Thanks for this

I had noticed this bit of piping in photographs before but never guessed at what it was. Thanks for bringing this up and I'm anxious to learn more.
In the most recent Paul Frederick catalog I received, they're showing a three-piece suit with high gorge, narrow lapels and a vest with lapels. Looks closely tailored, almost 'teens, without the goodies.

 

[Wolfmanjack]

Thank you for the facinating information, Joseph. Now knowing (thanks to you) that this garment is called a waistcoat 'slip', I was able to find an interesting account of the history and purpose of the waistcoat slip from one Anthony Jordan on Andy's Fashion Forum , to wit:

"Greetings from Wales; having found this discussion by searching for "Waistcoat slips", it is a pleasure to find a topic so recondite being discussed. Should you wish to view some close up pictures of a waistcoat showing its slips, you may wish to visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FormalWear/ which has touched upon this topic and has the requisite photographs in its aptly-named "photographs" section. I have seen two options canvassed for the origin and purpose of slips, one being that they are a vestige of the under waistcoat popular during the Regency period in Britain, when I understand it was fashionable to wear a number of waistcoats one over the other, with each just showing. Another explanation is that the slips were designed to guard against non-fast dyes from black waistcoats bleeding onto the shirt front. They seem to have died out more or less by the Second World War, except amongst the diehards. The Royal wedding is the first time that I have seen them worn with a double breasted or coloured waistcoat, though. A friend of mine is going to his tailors this morning to talk about getting a grey double breasted waistcoat made and I think that slips mey be on the agenda..."​

Incidentally, I have found Andy's Fashion Forum a very interesting forum, with extensive, in-depth discussions of various esoteric topics in current men's fashion, with an emphasis on "correctness".

Regards, Wolfmanjack