Bashing Suggestions?

[KY_RudeBoy]

I recently won a hat on ebay that is currently in an almost open crown state. It has been creased at some point, I would guess but it's kind of hard to tell what type of crease it was. I was curious if anyone would offer suggestions as to what shape I should crease it into. The cellophane-like crown cover is shaped in somewhat of a teardrop and the hat seems to want to be kind of a diamond crown so I am guessing that is the designed crease, but I was just curious. The felt is so floppy I can mash it into almost any shape right now so I took some pictures to show. I assume if I steam it the shape will somewhat set?

A little about the hat: It was advertised as a Knox and came in a Knox box, but nowhere on the hat does it say it really is a Knox. The liner reads "Ruby's Custom Hatters, Brooklyn, De Luxe Quality". It seems to be a decent hat, especially for what I paid and I was looking for a beater project hat to play around with.

Thanks for listening.

Center Dent

Diamond Crown

Inside

 

[Mr E Train]

The diamond bash suits that hat. Knox or not, it looks like quite a good quality hat.

 

[Cane Rod Maker]

Hat bash

I agree with Mr. E Train, the Diamond bash works on that hat. Nice lid !

The diamond bash suits that hat. Knox or not, it looks like quite a good quality hat.

 

[fluteplayer07]

To my knowledge, hat makers would often privately label hats for specific stores. I have a Dobbs with a Guild Edge, and nearly identical dimensions and felt 'hand' as another one of my Dobbs. But nowhere on the hat does it say it was from a particular maker; only Goldsmith Mens' Stores is on the liner. Of course, hats are nowhere near as prevalent in today's society for companies to bother with these private labels, so the vintage ones labeled in this manner are a bit of an enigma. And after a while, you can just tell some makers, and their common characteristics. I'm not well versed in Knox, but all the clues seem to point to it. And by the way, I also agree the diamond is best for it. (And the rest of the history buffs--correct my statements if you spot something amiss.)

flute

 

[KY_RudeBoy]

Thanks for the advice, compliments, and information, folks!
I'll give it a good brushing and fire up the ol' tea kettle then post pictures of my handiwork. I've looked at enough pictures on here that I think I can produce a diamond crown.

Now I just need to figure out how to shorten the wind cord a bit. It's a little loose. It's the kind with the button attached to the hat and a noose at the end of the cord.

Thanks again!

 

[RBH]

Nice hat, as to the wind cord. Slide the button towards the back of the hat [while the cord is around the crown] and that should tighten the cord up.

 

[KY_RudeBoy]

Nice hat, as to the wind cord. Slide the button towards the back of the hat [while the cord is around the crown] and that should tighten the cord up.

The button is sewn to the bow on the ribbon so I just tied a new noose knot on the cord. I have a tail on the cord now that is about an inch long but I can tuck that under the bow (or cut it off). Thanks!

 

[Chuck Bobuck]

That's a nice looking hat and I think the bash is fine as is. It's personal, a more pronounced diamond pushes the sides out a little and alleviates side to side taper. A centerdent gives it less taper, or even reverse taper front to back.

 

[johnnycanuck]

What could have happen to your hat is a servicing. The liner gets sweat stained and the sweat band get worn out and sent to Ruby's Custom Hatters for replacements. Ruby's puts in their liner and sweatband being they would not have Knox liners/sweatbands laying around.

Maybe it was a custom hat form Ruby's and when the original owner stored it he just had a Knox box laying around and put it in there.

At any rate, its a nice looking hat. Enjoy.

Johnny

 

[AlterEgo]

To my knowledge, hat makers would often privately label hats for specific stores. I have a Dobbs with a Guild Edge, and nearly identical dimensions and felt 'hand' as another one of my Dobbs. But nowhere on the hat does it say it was from a particular maker; only Goldsmith Mens' Stores is on the liner. Of course, hats are nowhere near as prevalent in today's society for companies to bother with these private labels, so the vintage ones labeled in this manner are a bit of an enigma. And after a while, you can just tell some makers, and their common characteristics. I'm not well versed in Knox, but all the clues seem to point to it. And by the way, I also agree the diamond is best for it. (And the rest of the history buffs--correct my statements if you spot something amiss.)

flute

You are exactly right, Flute, about private labels for certain stores. FYI, being a history buff, I think you'll appreciate this:

Goldsmith's was a fine department store in Memphis, TN that dates back to the 1800s--on par with St. Louis' Famous*Barr and Chicago's Marshall Fields. It became part of Federated Department Stores sometime in the 1960s, but FDS' business philosophy was to allow its stores to operate pretty much independently. So, Goldsmith's was still "Memphis' Greatest Store," its byline, until Macy's acquired it at the same time it gobbled up the above-mentioned stores in the early 2000s, when merchandise and service took a steep decline.

I well remember as a kid being with my dad and granddad trying on hats there at Goldsmith's. It had a separate hat section with a large inventory of mid-to-upper-level brands and a very knowledgable, helpful sales staff. After Dad and Grand died, being the hat guy in the family, I wound up with all their lids.

All way too large to fit me, they are nevertheless interesting keepsakes with sentimental, if not actual value, so I did some research on each of them. They are from the late '40s through '70s, and all the private-label Goldsmith's ones are made by Dobbs. Yours is probably a Dobbs, too. While I don't mean to hijack this thread, I'd be glad to make a judgement if you post some inside and outside photos with a detailed description.

Back on topic: KY_Rudeboy, I'd go with a diamond bash, too. If the hat touches the top of your head, you can then steam the upper part of the crown and punch it up from the inside to make a telescope without having to re-do the diamond.

 

[fluteplayer07]

Thanks for the info, AE! I think even better than posting on this thread for the Private Labels would be a separate 'reference' thread on the subject of Private Labels, their histories, makers, etc. Care to do the honors?

flute

 

[KY_RudeBoy]

Thanks for the information, guys. This place is great!
I would be interested in more history on the private labels too.
I did the initial forming of the diamond crown yesterday. Once I get it finished, I'll post up some more pictures.

 

[Brad Bowers]

I'd be all for seeing this information discovered! Most private labels are a bit of a mystery, without much to tie them to a manufacturer.

I know, for instance, that Brooks Brothers for a time, and Saks Fifth Avenue were made by Crofut & Knapp/Hat Corporation of America, along with a few others that I can't remember off the top of my head. Thanks to AlterEgo, I can add Goldsmith's to that list. Perhaps this Ruby brand, as well. But for the most part, we have no idea about the majority of the private labels, as they're harder to research.

Brad

 

[AlterEgo]

I have a rust suede leather center-dent/front-pinch narrow-brim alpine style by Churchill exclusively for Neiman-Marcus.

How do I know this?

Because, inside the sweat, it reads, "Made by Churchill exclusively for Neiman-Marcus."

Such a sleuth I am!

 

[KY_RudeBoy]

Here is the diamond crease I gave my Ruby's.
I worked on it a little bit at a time, over a few days. It's still a little rumpled, but I'm very pleased with how it turned out.

And here's the mug shot.

 

[Chuck Bobuck]

Here is the crease I gave my Ruby's.
I worked on it a little bit at a time, over a few days. It's still a little rumpled, but I'm very pleased with how it turned out.

Very nice, I like rumpled personally.