Behold, I give you...The cup.

[Dumpster Diver]

Well Ill be...


I honestly dont know if I found it..Maybe Andrew could Help confirm, I duno Boys...


I recently Purchased this WWII Irvin Coastal command Style Irvin Bomber Jacket, Hands down most awesome seller who I am In debt to indefinetly. I swore I would make them one of these someday, We ended up meeting in person and it was really nice to meet them.



The Jacket Was Named to an F. D. Hughes on the Hood. (Im Positive thats a D and not a B, I cannot find any F. B. Hughes, Only F. D. and on closer inspection there is a lot of Grain and a mark through the D. from Age) I was kinda stunned...My whole family was in the living room all talking about it weather or not its a match.


I was told he Flew out of Ireland, but I decided to investigate after Dinner, If it Is F.D. Hughes, he indeed Was Born in Ireland, For some Reason tonight, I got an urgre and brought it in to show my Family, and mull it over, and show them the Name of the owner, and how I finally realize why the left sleeve is always blown on these, Its from the throttle, this one has a repair over it...so I could tell he was a serious Pilot.

I want to say, that I got this so random No one saw it, even me. I swear I go by my instincts when I pull the trigger on a JAcket.

I dont know why its not in some HUGE war museum by now.

Dug up some provinence.... Maybe thats why It did get passed to me and overlooked, I dont know.

Random people in the Forums are asking for photos of him.

Hes got 18.5 Kills, and was given a post war comission.

This is what Skateboard dudes Respecfully Refer to As *Killer Material man* ...if this is what I think It is....

This is my Grail, I think this is it, Here it is.



I Magically wound up with this Irvin Jacket that he flew night fighter missions in a mosquito in 1943 wearing during night fighter runs I presume, when he was promoted to wing commander after surviving the BOB in 1940. The links provide the details and numbers better.

The leather was thirsty, slathered it in neatsfoot oil and its like a suit of scruffy blonde Medieval Knights armour. Its alive! ITS SO Luciously healthy still.

It was Retired in the 70s, it earned its respecful Retirement but Just keeps on giving. and by my baseball stats I figure its got over 21,000 hours of wear under its belt, LIterally. I think the moths might have gone to work on some patches too unfortunately.

It overwhelms me a bit, I feel sad looking over it, and hes in my heart. Im sure he lost a lot of friends.) Lot of painful Memories attatched to it, but I think thats why its still here, You need to remember the guys who didnt make it. I Truly believe thats why he kept it well.

I Raise my glass to the boys when I can.




http://www.telegraph.co.uk/history/world-war-two/10122414/The-doomed-flight-of-the-last-Dornier.html


http://diplomatist2.blogspot.ca/2012...ughes.html?m=1


http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showth...oto=nextoldest



http://www.rafweb.org/Biographies/Hughes_FD.htm



http://www.bbm.org.uk/HughesFD.htm



http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/it...36?nomobi=true




http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/No._604_Squadron_RAF


etc. etc.

(not my photos, the Jacket looks a lot more colourful and robust in person..I was stunned when I saw it in perseon, when handed to me the hairs on my arms stood up and I got tingles in my arms like the onset of a mild panic attack but I was ok.)


I can Do very thorough Jacket foresnics and read them like tea leaves...one day I will reveal the secret magical powers of bomber jackets to you...(maybe when youre ready)


before I knew a face or who he was on paper, I Looked over the Jacket thoroughly and this is what I could already see;

this guy was one HELL of a pilot, I could tell he smoked and was right handed by a cig burn Just on the right chest. Undoubtedly drank profusely (Not Because Hes Irish or something tho, LoL heavens no I dont mean THAT! But It wouldnt be wrong in my personal experience with my Irish Friends at least to presume..heheh) and by Just handling the Jacket alone Im In deep awe. Before I looked him up I could tell he might have had a dog Just picking up a slight air in the fleece....The Dog He took with him on flights was named Scruffy and suffered a similar Fate as the Burt Lancaster Dam Busters Film Dog.(Im sure the movie based that from This Chap Hawkeye)..Scruffy was hit by a WAAC Truck after a mission it says... Took his Dog with him on missions in a pair of sheepskin trousers!!!

...Thats so intense. Apparantly one time the dog Freaked for its life and Ran to the Tail of the plane and didnt come out after. Must have been Traumatized for its mortal soul.


*IF* this is legit..and actually F.D. Hughes Jacket, how does a Guy Like me wind up with it, else one of you or whatever.. you know..That has me doubting hard about its true provinance.


This is a score of scores for me, Taken many many long years of waiting and watching for my chance for something like this.

Truly It belongs in a Museum prettymuch Just the same, I wish I had a chance to meet him in life.
Thanks for looking.

I will post some more pics, these arent my own photos, hopefully the seller is cool with me posting them.

-J

Again,

He probly wore it Until he retired his commission in the early 70s.

I know I would.


To the better men who came before me, Hats off. This Chap Survived, That makes me Sad, Im sure he lost enough friends in the process.

To the benevolence and kindness of Strangers...heres to you!


Its a privellage and an honour to be the proud owner and guardian of this Old hunk of hide.

Its got some soul to it, Its got Aura. Its bonafide. What you think. [huh]

 

[zhz]

WOW, what a find.

 

[Dumpster Diver]

Thank you.

I honestly Bet my very last Cash on this If you know what I mean, Came home with Magic Beans, plant the seeds and wait and see.

Dont even Talk numbers, Even The Jacket in my Avatar I wouldnt sell you for a Million Dollars.

I dont want to know what something like this is worth, the true value is priceless to me.

 

[zhz]

This jacket is price less IMO. Congratulations.

 

[Dumpster Diver]

Yo, word to that.


Im doing Victory Rolls.

 

[mendelboaz]

Congratulations, sir. This is legend beyond measure.

 

[Dumpster Diver]

Thanks Awfully.

I better Get it Appraised and Insured ASAP.

Its like the holy shroud to me at this point.

 

[Dumpster Diver]

Hes Written Un-published Memoirs according to one of the articles.

Hopefully I can track someone down who would take pity on me and let me read some. better yet I put this out here and they find me and get in touch at some point. It would mean a lot to me.


I would simply Love to get to know the man a little better now that his Jacket is right here with me. Its so intriguing, He looks so Dashing in that photo doesnt he!

 

[RJR]

Amazing find!

 

[schitzo]

after all that I hope to Christ it is what you think it is. And if it is, I'm pleased to see it end up with a dude like you.

Good diving

 

[handymike]

Wow! Congratulations.

 

[bn1966]

Like 'Handy Mike' said...wow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Smithy]

Lovely Irvin but I must play devil's advocate here.

Indeed, Des Hughes was one of the most famous RAF fighter pilots of the war but he was also only a member of Fighter Command throughout the war. Coastal Command Irvins were almost solely the preserve of Coastal Command and the Fleet Air Arm, it would have been highly unusual for a member of FC to receive one as their equipment was issued via RAF stores.

Des would have been issued an Irvin when he joined the VR in 1939 but it would have been a standard Irvin - in fact I think I have a photo of him somewhere wearing one in early 1940. Operationally Irvin use in FC tailed off sharply from 1940 and they were mostly used just to keep warm whilst on the ground and on base. It would also therefore be highly unusual for Hughes to be reissued another Irvin, especially one reserved for use by the FAA and CC.

I'm also not convinced that the D in the name is a D.

Not trying to rain on your parade but just bringing a little bit of constructive logic to this. I wouldn't be popping the corks on the Krug just yet.

Nonetheless a beautiful CC Irvin and in very good nick regardless of providence.

 

[Dumpster Diver]

I totally Agree with you that a lot of this is based speculation right now, but Im more convinced than skeptical at this point, Its all hanging by a thread...tied to a needle in a haystack.

I wouldnt have started this thread unless I wasnt totally convinced.


Highyl unusual for him to have one as being Part of fighter command, but that to me reads like The Man himself as a matter of fact. He seemed to be a real game changer, the Night fighter squadrons Had their own thing going on, Im sure they mucked around on the regulations from time to time Just to get things fine tuned and accustomed to their preferences when they first swung into it...maybe it was a specialized Squadron of a small handful who decided to select a CC Irvin Jacket, who knows...maybe these Jackets were all that was readily available on short notice...Im Just going out on a limb here, prove me wrong.

Secondly, where is the other IRVIN from The picture you speak of NOW then...what happened to That one, if it still existed it would be a very important artifact if it also had his name on it, but it could have been a jacket owned by the RAF...nothing could be certain here for sure until that shred, that tiny tidbit comes to light. If his Regular Irvin was returned after the war, its out there nameless in obscurity, any of you might have it...its anybodies guess then for the fate of the one you speak of.

Like I said, you would think a Jacket like this would be old news by now if it was what Im telling you I know it is..



If you can post those photos for me here, I would be greatful to you smithy. Im almost POSITIVE it has to belong to Hughes himself.

The Seller who sold it to me, purchased this all the way From Ireland...that Pretty much is the key thing to keep in mind here.

How many F.B. (OR) F.D. Hughes were both living In Ireland together unbenounced to one another, before, during, and after the war. both having flown and both surviving etc, That would be one serious co-incedence if you ask me.

I cannot find any F.B. Hughes in the RAF ranks.

E.A. Is the other initials after hughes, Im not sure on that specific abbreviation. but theres another big clue. And theres a set of initials down low on the left back pannel beside the Belt I can hardly make out....three Letters. Gonna reallly REALLY study it hard for a time.

My granfather was transferred around a lot during his time in the artillery, and he was issued lots of specialized gear and had to make proper uniform Changes etc. for the span of his time in the war.

I know for a fact that a DC3 Navigator Who personally was given both the Blue RAF-RCAF style tunic and blazer, then Issued a set of khakis.. he was in Burma and had no longer need for the Blue colour stuff, so he told me he wore out his Khakis during the war and didnt have them anymore, Just the Blue Coloured Uniform and Trench coat.

Desmond Played a lot of different Roles, While Very un-likey as you pointed out; What if he was issued this Jacket and then suddenly got assigned to something different not requiring a CC Jacket, so Maybe he got it by chance and had it as a spare. This is why I need details details details. Look, Im going to go back and find the pic I saw one photo of the 600--ish Squadron Mosquito night fighter pilots all on their bunks with their night goggles on to adjust their eyes before going on a mission in 1943 in one of those links somewhere, one of them is Smoking a Corn cob Pipe, and a couple of them are sporting their CC irvins that look EERILY similar to mine. I dont recognize Hughes is in that pic, but My mom was thinking maybe he is in there.

if not, maybe he swapped jackets with a friend in Coastal command, but not at all likely.

Maybe he wanted a CC Irvin because of its Irregular Style and privately purchased this or something. You Just said so yourself The practice was to wear them to keep warm on the ground. Maybe theres a practical and simple reason he needed this Jacket despite being issued one prior to 1941 according to the standard issue RAF Irvin you mentioned in the photo of Hughes. Maybe It was more likely they would be Shot down over water than Land where they were going at the time and needed them, and either privately purchased them or Put in a special request for them. It could be THAT simple and easy of an explanation seeing as one of the Planes Desmond was credited having shot down in one of those links I posted is being Dredged up and plucked from the bottom of the Channel (I think its the channel I have to re-read it back again) anyway two of the four Crew Washed up on either sides...Youd think Maybe a clue to why you might need the Yellow hood...makes sense to me if the other plane Got the Drop on Hawkeye by chance, but we all know how things panned out for the poor German Crews who met up with Hughes...


But then Again, I believe it said he was Flying a Defiant when he got that kill, cant be certain if the Aircraft he was using disproves or helps support wether or not he was wearing his Yellow Hoodie Irvin at the time.

I doubt it was passed on to him from a friend who was killed in the war, because The guy would have been wearing at the time. all I know is that most Irvins were bought by the RAF and had to be given back after the war, So I could presume this was a privately purchased one. But I would *like* to believe it was a special Request put in for them, Im less reluctant to buy into that idea than Private purchase, these were luxury items and to buy one yourself would put you out of pocket in no short order..plus that photo of the night fighters wearing them together makes it less likey to be private purchase...In that case he was high up and influencial and had authority, could have sentimental value to him, so he bought it from the RAF as a keepsake despite it being a special Issue item in the end because it would have been easier to pull those kinds of strings from a better seated position in the RAF.


I dont know, When did his Pal Scruffy Pass on, I swear I found a lighter and thicker than the Jackets wool, blonde-ish short *terrier* looking dog hair on this jacket right off as soon as I first looked it over it. If the previous seller has no pets like a cat or dog or something..this might sound like a long-shot but Im TELLIN Ya! If poor scruffy was hit by the Truck in 1943, That would put the dog and jacket together perhaps for a time, again, without information to go On, I cant prove any of this I realize that. one of you might be able to Date the Jacket a little better that might be a good clue.


to see documents of his, and to be able to compare the handwriting on the Jacket to Desomonds Handwriting.

The whole case rests on the most tiniest little insignificant seeming Details.

And I really Have studied the letter that could be a B, but I assure that its still Legible as a D.

cross my heart, and I will get some more pics up in good time.

 

[Dumpster Diver]

The Jackets new nickname from now on is *SCRUFFY*

 

[Dumpster Diver]

not convinced that the D in the name is a D.

I wasnt convinced either, It was a B to me since Ive had it.

Im an Artist, and Ive spent years with my nose pressed into a scramble of fine lines even my trained eyes passed it off as a B.

it IS a D. I kept on sayin, no, its a B, its F. B. Hughes and that Just didnt fit at all, but IT was a B, I swore at first!!!

No, way, it cant be I D thought. ***

Finally In frustration turning up no F. B. hughes, and my folks were starting to get annoyed with me insisting it HAS to be D.

I took a very hard look and Carefully studied the letter after turning in negative results on F. *B.* Hughes RAF. I stretched out the leather a bit until the crease from the leather grain flattened out and took another look, put it right up to my face.

Theres a black line through the letter that you dont see the beggining of because it comes up from below then goes up and straight through the middle of it making it obscure.. resembles a B, and the original Ink is pretty faded, but its there, in the right light its legible as a D, you can see the swing of the outside D swoop make a full Cup that follows through and not the stroke you would make to write a B at all.

Its a D.

a picture is worth a thousand words, I will get some better looking closeup shots of the name for you to see and *Deecide* for yourselves. (no pun intended)

 

[Dumpster Diver]

This excerpt From the Description from the seller whom I bought this Jacket from;

-------Irvin RAF flying jacket made late WWII for a pilot who flew B52 Liberators out of an Irish RAF airforce base on anti-submarine missions. Pilot's name still visible on hood and hem----------


I dont believe beyond a reasonable doubt for this to be correctly determined information as I never knew or heard of a B52 Liberator before, not especially flying out of Ireland... And will have to re-confirm with them to get the story here straight because they do not actually spell out the name or initials in the description.

Im more inclined to believe the Jacket simply CAME from ireland where it turned up essentialy, because it belongs to Desmond Hughes..

Anyway, The Cork on this is really under a lot of pressure and wants to pop.

(By Cork I mean Brain. *lol*)

 

[Smithy]

This excerpt From the Description from the seller whom I bought this Jacket from;

-------Irvin RAF flying jacket made late WWII for a pilot who flew B52 Liberators out of an Irish RAF airforce base on anti-submarine missions. Pilot's name still visible on hood and hem----------


I dont believe beyond a reasonable doubt for this to be correctly determined information as I never knew or heard of a B52 Liberator before, not especially flying out of Ireland... And will have to re-confirm with them to get the story here straight because they do not actually spell out the name or initials in the description.

Im more inclined to believe the Jacket simply CAME from ireland where it turned up essentialy, because it belongs to Desmond Hughes..

Anyway, The Cork on this is really under a lot of pressure and wants to pop.

Whilst B-52 Liberators is obviously wrong, I think the seller may have got confused and meant B-24 Liberators which was extensively used by CC on anti-submarine patrols and this rings true. CC Irvins were usually issued to aircrew involved in anti-submarine and long range reconnaissance ops over the north Atlantic and North Sea. It just doesn't make sense for a fighter pilot in FC to be issued, let alone want, a CC Irvin, he just wouldn't have any use for it.

The RAF at it's peak in WWII had 1 million service people (certainly not all aircrew) but there would have been several P.D. Hughes in the service, and that's not including the RN, if this fellow was FAA. I have a number of scans of the RAF lists from the war but what with us moving country, they are already boxed away, otherwise I'd get them out.

Once again, I'm not trying to be a party pooper but just being a little bit realistic in terms of how we look at this.

Cheers,

Tim

 

[Dumpster Diver]

I know what you mean, it doesnt seem practical for FC Pilot to require a CC Irvin.

Yes, I realize the seller might have made a Typo or got confused.

Admittedly its too good to be true. But Im not giving up until I know who infact, this Jacket Belongs to one way or the other. (no point in quitting now)

P.D. Hughes could be correct if thats True, I could see that being totally possible, Im sure youve got something there.

could also be

FC

PC

FE

PE

PD

PB

etc etc. Im going to put the Jacket under a Magnifying glass to really really REALLY confirm what I see.

Im definetly seeing an F.

And what could either be a ---D, C, E or B. ---

what could E. A. be short for BTW.




Im not interested in its monetary Value, as much as Just getting it Straight.

Desmond Hughes is obviously going to turn up on the internet search before I found out if it was actually another guy from Ireland who flew using this Jacket with a Similar name.

If you turn up any leads towards a Liberator Flying, CC Irvin Wearing First two intitial Varians (F,P.---and--E,C,D,B for the second) last name- hughes enlisted in the RAF during WWII, I would be eternally Greatful.

Im going to take another intense look.

...Im still enthusiastic and equally keen to truly know who owned this and what they went through wearing it

even if it turns out its not actually Desmond Hawkeye Hughes who wore this Jacket.

I trust your Expert oppinion.

 

[Dumpster Diver]

What if A.E. Is his First initials, and its F(slash) O. for flight officer hughes then!!!! COULD BE!!! Im going to search this and see if It turns up.