Boyington rejected as role model

[MrBern]

anti-hero?

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=48808

 

[Hondo]

Mr. Bern, No not anti-hero, its just the sad state of affairs with today?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s youth at least those at Washington U. not everyone feels the same, Pappy wouldn?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢t really care what these folks do in there free time, and he didn?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢t ask them for the memorial. History holds that honor, Many so called heroes have been prone to personal demons, and if you don?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢t understand, tough, life goes on.
God Bless those who served their country:cheers1:

 

[Feraud]

Obviously the U of W's student senate skipped out of History class! Is it too much to expect 18-22 year olds to know their heroes?
I read something in another forum about the student senate receiving flak over their decision. Maybe they will amend the decision.

 

[maintcoder]

This situation shows that there is a real intellectual and generational disconnect today. I cannot even contemplate the thought processes that had occurred in not classifying Colonel Boyington as a role model. Was he a perfect individual? No, but then none of us are. Was he heroic? An unequivocal yes. He (and his generation) fought the costliest conflict ever for freedom at great sacrifice and to be referenced as a killer is very disturbing. War is ugly and it entails killing others. I doubt anyone ever involved relished the duty, but it was a duty they performed for this country to remain free. A sense of duty and service is what they should see as his legacy and warrants him being a role model. I wonder if there are many today willing to sacrifice like he and his generation had.

 

[jake431]

This situation shows that there is a real intellectual and generational disconnect today. I cannot even contemplate the thought processes that had occurred in not classifying Colonel Boyington as a role model. Was he a perfect individual? No, but then none of us are. Was he heroic? An unequivocal yes. He (and his generation) fought the costliest conflict ever for freedom at great sacrifice and to be referenced as a killer is very disturbing. War is ugly and it entails killing others. I doubt anyone ever involved relished the duty, but it was a duty they performed for this country to remain free. A sense of duty and service is what they should see as his legacy and warrants him being a role model. I wonder if there are many today willing to sacrifice like he and his generation had.

Boyington was a great leader during wartime. But, he was a drunk, he lied about being married (used his real father's name, to claim single status) to get into the flight program in the Marine Corps. He also got dishonerably discharged from the AVG, lied about how many planes he shot down when he returned to the states, and lied again about how many planes he shot down when he was shot down (upon his return he added another one or two planes (I'll check my sources) to his tally - to add up to 28. His total kills is more accurately thought to be about 22 or so. Boyington said it himself, "show me a hero, and I'll show you a bum." He was speaking from experience. Still he was a great fighter squadron commander and a great combat pilot. And certainly I can't fathom why a university would vote him down the way they did. But let's not pretend he's a great example of a role model, I can't think of a parent that would want his drunken lying to be emulated, but he's a good example of the right man being in the right place at the right time, that's for sure.

-Jake

 

[chilidawgguy]

Anyone who turned 18 today was born in 1988. Think about that. These kids missed practically everything that has had any impact at all on my life (except for 9/11). Yet, they are the ones who will be making the decisions that will effect the way I end my life. My generation (the boomers) started turning 60 this year. In 20 years, we'll still be the largest segment of the population, but we'll be in our eighties. I worry that a generation that has no respect for men like Greg Boyington, will have no compunction in using euthenasia against an aging geriatric population.

My late father-in-law, LTC. Mercer Richard (Dick) Smith was also a Marine pilot who knew Boyington. He admired his abilities, not the man. Pappy was not only a drunk, but a mean drunk. My father-in-law was the 2nd American shot down over Korea, and one of the last to return. He was a POW for 3 years. And while I admired Dick, I can't say to this day whether I liked him or not. Like most combat vets (myself included: Vietnam was my war) he had his problems. I only ask that those UW students remember that, "Progress, far from consisting in change, depends on retentiveness. Those who cannot remember the past, are condemned to repeat it."

And to Dick and Pappy, I say Semper Fi. Rest in peace.
You guys earned it.

 

[Feraud]

From the minutes of the student senate of U of W.

. Orders of the Day
A. New Business
There was no new business to consider.
B. Old Business
1 Statement added by Senate Steering 02/13/2006
R-12-18 A Resolution to Calling for a Tribute for Col. Gregory ?¢‚Ǩ?ìPappy?¢‚Ǩ?
Boyington, USMC
Andrew Everett, sponsor of the legislation, summarized the resolution.
He said he wasn?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢t interested in a large statue, but rather something on a
small scale.
Jill Edwards moved to table the resolution until next meeting. Seconded.
Objection.
Jill Edwards said other legislation needed to be considered as other
resolutions have been on the docket longer.
Mikhail Smirnoff said he didn?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢t see the issue as controversial and that
because Senate had voted it to the top of the agenda it should be
considered immediately.
The motion failed.
Travis McCoy asked how the construction of the memorial would be
funded.
Andrew Everett said he had drawn up funding proposals for the UWAA,
several UW departments, and other private sources of funding.
Jono Hanks1 asked why Andrew Everett was interested in honoring this
particular alumnus.
Andrew Everett said he had read about Colonel Boyington and thought
his achievements warranted recognition.
Tyler Dockins asked why the monument shouldn?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢t commemorate all the
alumni who fought in the war.
Andrew Everett noted that several statues around campus already serve
such a purpose and that Colonel Boyington had many of the qualities the
University of Washington hoped to produce in its students.
Jill Edwards questioned whether it was appropriate to honor a person
who killed other people.2
She said she didn?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢t believe a member of the Marine Corps was an
example of the sort of person UW wanted to produce.
1 Name added by Senate Steering 02/13/2006
2 Statement added by Senate Steering 02/13/2006
Ashley Miller commented that many monuments at UW1 commemorate
rich white men.
Karl Smith amended the first ?¢‚ǨÀúwhereas?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢ clause to strike the section ?¢‚Ǩ?ìhe
was credited with destroying 26 enemy aircraft, tying the record for most
aircraft destroyed by a pilot in American Uniform for which he was?¢‚Ǩ? and
leaving the reference to the Navy Cross. Seconded. Objection.
He said the resolution should commend Colonel Boyington?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s service, not
his killing of others.
Andrew Everett said a destroyed aircraft was not necessarily indicative
that a pilot had died. He said the statistic on aircraft downed explained
Colonel Boyington?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s achievements and why his performance was
noteworthy.
Deidre Lockman said she was in favor of the resolution and approved of
Karl Smith?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s amendment.
Sam Al-Khoury moved to close debate on the amendment. Seconded.
Passed without objection.
The amendment passed.
Erin Shields asked what the process is for erecting a memorial on
campus.
Andrew Everett said it was a process he would push through personally.
He said it would go to the university administration, then to the Capital
Projects Committee for placement consideration, and back to the
administration for a final discussion on the monument.
Niki Iglesias moved to close debate. Seconded. Objection.
The motion failed.
Shawn Fisher moved to amend the second ?¢‚ǨÀúthat?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢ clause and strike the
deadline of 11 January 2008.
He said he was against the resolution, but that if it did pass, he wanted the
statue to be of a high quality and said the project shouldn?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢t be rushed.
1 Previously read ?¢‚Ǩ?ì?¢‚Ǩ¬¶many monuments at UW already commemorate?¢‚Ǩ¬¶?¢‚Ǩ? ?¢‚Ǩ?ìalready?¢‚Ǩ? removed by Senate
Steering 02/17/2006
Mikhail Smirnoff noted the resolution didn?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢t require the statue to be
finished, but merely have the process started by that time.
Melissa Aar said she was against the amendment because of the
significance of the date.
Shawn Fisher moved to close debate. Seconded. Passed without
objection.
Debate was closed. The amendment failed.
A Senator said he feared Senate was rubber stamping a project that it
didn?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢t know enough about. He noted that Senate didn?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢t have any
specification for the statue?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s appearance or details on its placement.
Jon Lee said he didn?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢t want to see a campus inundated with memorials.
He said he feared this would open the invitation to multiple other
memorials, which would water down their importance.1
Andrew Everett said he envisioned a monument similar to the Lincoln
Brigade outside of the HUB. He said he respected the history of the UW
institution and the people it has produced and that the UW owes it to
students to honors those from the past.
Deidre Lockman moved to strike the quote from President Roosevelt.
Seconded. Objection.
She said the resolution focused more heavily on the negative aspects of
war and should instead focus on more positive aspects such as the
awarding of the Medal of Honor.
Travis Grandy moved to amend the amendment to restore ?¢‚Ǩ?ìwhose
citation was signed by pres. Franklin D Roosevelt in March 1944?¢‚Ǩ?.
Seconded. Passed without objection.
Shawn Fisher said he thought the quote was unnecessary and reflected
badly on the resolution.
Alex Kerchner said the issue was clear cut and that it didn?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢t make any
sense to commend Colonel Boyington for his Medal of Honor, and yet
remove the reason it was awarded.
Mikhail Smirnoff said it was important to note what the Colonel actually
achieved. He said it didn?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢t make sense to not acknowledge why he was
awarded the Medal of Honor.
1 ?¢‚Ǩ?ìwhich would water down their importance?¢‚Ǩ? added by Senate Steering 02/17/2006
Jon Evans moved to close debate on the amendment. Seconded.
Objection.
The motion passed. Debate was closed on the amendment.
The amendment failed.
Mikhail Smirnoff said he supported the resolution. He said the resolution
does not support a final product, but that it only supports the concept of
the monument. He said he understood the sentiment of not wanting to
reward those who fought in the war, but that he thought those who fought
in WWII were heros and that it was a much different war than the
controversial war in Iraq.
Evan Roberts moved to close debate. Seconded. Objection.
The motion failed.
Division was called. The motion passed.
Debate was closed on the resolution.
Division was called on the resolution. The vote was tied 45-45-101
Alex Kim noted that in the case of a tie, the Senate Chair cast the tiebreaking
vote.
Alex Kim voted nay. The resolution failed.
Zachary Tobin called for a roll call vote.
Alex Kim called the motion out of order as the results of the vote had
already been announced.

I don't know how long I could sit on that committee and listen to these girls talk about not wanting to honor someone who "killed people" or monuments to "rich white men". Jeez, Democracy hurts sometimes..:eusa_doh:

 

[Prairie Shade]

Jake 431 - Chilidawguy

I like your observations. Churchill (?) who said "Those who are successful in peace are a failure in war, those who are a success in war are a failure in peace." War is an irrational activity. It takes an unusual individual to fly a can of gas into flak or an aerial dog fight, or to get up from cover and move forward against someone trying to kill you. When life returns to normal, you will be judged by another more normal standard. You may come up short as a civilian!! Just my .25.

 

[Jay]

Whats happened to our world? What caused this strange, wide gap between the current generation and the baby boomers? Was it Vietnam? It's crazy what these kids are saying.

 

[Fedorista]

I'd be proud to honor this alumnus

The President of the United States takes pleasure in presenting the CONGRESSIONAL MEDAL OF HONOR to
MAJOR GREGORY BOYINGTON
UNITED STATES MARINE CORPS RESERVE​

for service as set forth in the following

CITATION:

For extraordinary heroism above and beyond the call of duty as Commanding Officer of Marine Fighting Squadron TWO FOURTEEN in action against enemy Japanese forces in Central Solomons Area from 12 September 1943 to 3 January 1944. Consistently outnumbered throughout successive hazardous flights over heavily defended hostile territory, Major Boyington struck at the enemy with daring and courageous persistence, leading his squadron into combat with devastating results to Japanese shipping, shore installations and aerial forces. Resolute in his efforts to inflict crippling damage on the enemy, Major Boyington led a formation of twenty-four fighters over Kahili on 17 October and, persistently circling the airdrome where sixty hostile aircraft were grounded, boldly challenged the Japanese to send up planes. Under his brilliant command, our fighters shot down twenty enemy craft in the ensuing action without the loss of a single ship. A superb airman and determined fighter against overwhelming odds, Major Boyington personally destroyed 26 of the many Japanese planes shot down by his squadron and by his forceful leadership developed the combat readiness in his command which was a distinctive factor in the Allied aerial achievements in this vitally strategic area.

 

[Twitch]

Not to worry. This blurb from this place relative to all things is meaningless. No one cares what some crapshack school reveres or doesn't. They aren't mainstream and for the most part no one today even knows Boyington unless they watched the Robert Conrad TV show. Pappy did say it himself- "show me a hero and I'll prove he's a bum." He didn't care. We all assign value to villians and heros for our own reasons. Most certainly the position of this school will not make anyone suddenly re-think their feeling for Boyington.

 

[Dusty Rhodes]

Not to worry. This blurb from this place relative to all things is meaningless. No one cares what some crapshack school reveres or doesn't. They aren't mainstream and for the most part no one today even knows Boyington unless they watched the Robert Conrad TV show. Pappy did say it himself- "show me a hero and I'll prove he's a bum." He didn't care. We all assign value to villians and heros for our own reasons. Most certainly the position of this school will not make anyone suddenly re-think their feeling for Boyington.

Nope, but there are other ways to remember the man such as here:
Lt. Col. Gregory Pappy Boyington Memorial Scholarship Fund
A scholarship fund honoring World War II Fighter Pilot Gregory "Pappy" Boyington, a Medal of Honor recipient and UW alumnus. Boyington was a 1934 UW aeronautics & astronautics engineering graduate. This fund provides scholarships to undergraduate students who are either a U.S Marine Corps veteran or are the child of a U.S Marine Corps veteran.
http://secure.gifts.washington.edu/uw_foundation/gift.asp?source_typ=3&source=PAPPYB
http://www.washington.edu/alumni/columns/dec98/back_pages1298.html
:cheers1:
DR

 

[K.D. Lightner]

Well, if I am ever in combat trouble, someone send me some "mean drunks" to shoot down the enemy.

karol

 

[shamus]

Well, if I am ever in combat trouble, someone send me some "mean drunks" to shoot down the enemy.

karol

There is so much a current affairs joke here....

 

[airfrogusmc]

There are times when we need people just like Pappy. We should all be grateful that he stepped up when it really counted.

 

[Prairie Shade]

Lets Think a Little

Richard Bong- MOH, P-38 Pilot - 40 Kills. Anybody ever heard of Him? No TV show just another Army Aviator. One of the best of the best. These are my role models, not that anyone needs them. Interesting tho, Barry Goldwater was one of his instructors.

 

[airfrogusmc]

Prairie Shade I think theres plenty of room to honor all of them. General Scott died today, another great American that should be honored also.

 

[Prairie Shade]

ABSOLUTELY

You are right, they arent making any more. BUT, we cant be one of them.

 

[airfrogusmc]

I wish the media would give as much attention to Gen Scott as they have some of the TV and movie personalities that have died lately.

 

[photobyalan]

Richard Bong- MOH, P-38 Pilot - 40 Kills. Anybody ever heard of Him? No TV show just another Army Aviator. One of the best of the best. These are my role models, not that anyone needs them. Interesting tho, Barry Goldwater was one of his instructors.

...haven't heard of him, but I'll wager that if the name "Bong" came up in a college senate meeting, the resolution would pass. It would be interesting to see what design they would come up with.