Britishisms sneaking into American vernacular

[Louise Anne]

I really cannot belive that no one can see my point!
it really proves that people do not read post in forum just go throught them.

 

[vitanola]

I really cannot belive that no one can see my point!
it really proves that people do not read post in forum just go throught them.

I fear that whilst your point may be abundantly clear to one who shares your own life experience, it is not at all clear to some of the rest of us. It does not appear to me that any other poster here has been intentionally offensive, though of course others may well have noted some barb that my beknighted little mind missed.

You might do those of us who were raised in the New World a great favor should you re-state your premise clearly, so that we may avoid misunderstanding and also avoid accidental offense.

My own guess is that your point involves the matter of not all Englishmen being British, not all Britishers being English, or some such, but your rather vague comments smack more than a little of a cat-and-mouse game of wounded feelings.

It has, I understand, generally been regarded as the imperative of a writer or speaker that they make their meaning clear, and that they alone bear the responsibility to correct any misapprehension on the part of their audience, don't you think? I have the problem quite often, myself, where I make a comment which is outside the cultural context with which my auditor is familiar. In those cases any confusion is my responsibility entirely.

 

[Louise Anne]

I would describe this in the real word as a typical Americaners attiutude.

Just so you know Vitanola your guess scores 0 out of 100 or is completly wrong in all points, 10/10 for trying.


I still am going to keep the cat and mouse game up as you seam to think it is.

also I think I worked out that 55,000,000 people also share my life experiance as you put it, so it may not have offended the ladies here but there are pleanty left who raise an eyebrow at this thread

just for you I will add another clue.

(the UK ladies might spoted it becuse they are from the UK)
it's not what they say it's what they have not used.

 

[Flat Foot Floey]

I really cannot belive that no one can see my point!
it really proves that people do not read post in forum just go throught them.

I did read it but it doesn't sound offensive to me rather than imprecise. [huh]
It makes me think of a Stephen Frye aphorism about people feeling offended but it is too aggressive to be quoted here.
I really don't mean it like that. I just don't think it is bad.
Maybe like confusing holland and the netherlands. Imprecise but not meant to be rude.

PS: The USA is not the same as "America" either.

 

[Flicka]

I'd never heard of Irish people being classified as "ginger" -- around here most of the Irish are what they used to call "black Irish," with dark hair and olive skin, which is part of my own ancestry, so we tended to identify a red-haired person as red-haired rather than Irish. If there was a red-haired Celtic stereotype I knew about growing up, it was that Scots were red haired, bad tempered, tight-fisted, and liked to play golf.

The only Irish stereotypes that are common around here are class oriented rather than complexion-oriented -- we had "Shanty Irish" and "Lace-Curtain Irish," which are pretty much self-explanatory.

The most "ginger-looking" people I ever knew were of pure Norweigian descent -- red hair, pale skin, and freckles for everybody in the family. And not a drop of Irish blood that anyone knew of.

As a Scandinavian, I can say a great many people here are reddish-blonde rather than ash-y blonde and most blondes get freckles from the sun. Lots of Swedes and Norwegians are strawberry blonde and Danes especially tend to be reddish-haired and freckled, IME. But try being short and dark and then convincing people you're Swedish... Anyway, The people who assumed I was Irish did give my colouring as part of the reason (pale, dark hair, green eyes) - one of them even said: "You have Irish eyes!" I sucked that comment up because 1) it sounds poetic and 2) being Swedish is the most boring origin imaginable so anything else is a step up.

 

[Louise Anne]

Imprecise might be another way of putting it, Flat Foot Floey more so with the BBC title, in general you are thinking along the right lines.

 

[esteban68]

Flicka being short and dark can be an advantage, a great friend of mine when he was in the Royal Marines and on training in Norway found himself to be an item of great interest to many of the Norweigan ladies who were used to taller much fairer males, needless to say he was quite happy with the situation!

How can a nation that brought us ABBA, Anita Ekberg, Ingrid Bergman, Max von Sydow, Greta Garbo, Britt Ekland, Lars Magnus Ericson, and Ingvar Kamprad be seen as boring?

 

[Miss Sis]

Rhymes with tough.

I've always heard it pronounced 'Broff' and no other way.

 

[Louise Anne]

As a Scandinavian, I can say a great many people here are reddish-blonde rather than ash-y blonde and most blondes get freckles from the sun. Lots of Swedes and Norwegians are strawberry blonde and Danes especially tend to be reddish-haired and freckled, IME. But try being short and dark and then convincing people you're Swedish... Anyway, The people who assumed I was Irish did give my colouring as part of the reason (pale, dark hair, green eyes) - one of them even said: "You have Irish eyes!" I sucked that comment up because 1) it sounds poetic and 2) being Swedish is the most boring origin imaginable so anything else is a step up.

My Brother inlaw matches your Scandinavian description , when he was in Sweden they thought he was a Swedish man married to a British lady that's unil he spoke English of course, he says he has Scandinavian roots wishful thinking maybe he would like to be . People here think he could be Scandinavian just going by his apperance.

 

[herringbonekid]

How can a nation that brought us ABBA, Anita Ekberg, Ingrid Bergman, Max von Sydow, Greta Garbo, Britt Ekland, Lars Magnus Ericson, and Ingvar Kamprad be seen as boring?

you missed out Ingmar Bergman.

 

[Flicka]

I did read it but it doesn't sound offensive to me rather than imprecise. [huh]
It makes me think of a Stephen Frye aphorism about people feeling offended but it is too aggressive to be quoted here.
I really don't mean it like that. I just don't think it is bad.
Maybe like confusing holland and the netherlands. Imprecise but not meant to be rude.

PS: The USA is not the same as "America" either.

There's also no such thing as "Scandinavian". I use that here too, but no one I know would ever identify with being "Scandinavian". We hardly ever use that word; if we do group Norway, Sweden and Denmark together (despite our huge differences ) we say "Nordic". I can't expect outsiders to get the distinction though, and I tend to shrug when I see supposedly Swedish characters being called "Larsen" or speak with that typical "Swedish" movie accent (which is actually Norwegian). I mean, I'm happy if Americans don't ask me about alps and cuckoo clocks (which has happened)...

 

[Flicka]

you missed out Ingmar Bergman.

Nothing says "party" like Ingmar Bergman...

 

[Dubya]

I fear that whilst your point may be abundantly clear to one who shares your own life experience, it is not at all clear to some of the rest of us. It does not appear to me that any other poster here has been intentionally offensive, though of course others may well have noted some barb that my beknighted little mind missed.

You might do those of us who were raised in the New World a great favor should you re-state your premise clearly, so that we may avoid misunderstanding and also avoid accidental offense.

My own guess is that your point involves the matter of not all Englishmen being British, not all Britishers being English, or some such, but your rather vague comments smack more than a little of a cat-and-mouse game of wounded feelings.

It has, I understand, generally been regarded as the imperative of a writer or speaker that they make their meaning clear, and that they alone bear the responsibility to correct any misapprehension on the part of their audience, don't you think? I have the problem quite often, myself, where I make a comment which is outside the cultural context with which my auditor is familiar. In those cases any confusion is my responsibility entirely.

Mate, I'm with you on this one. I can't see what the problem is with this article/ thread!? Brits, British is the generic term for us in this sceptered Isle. I'm English born, with Scots and Irish ancestry.
I find nothing offensive whatsoever, and I can't work out why Louise Anne feels it is. Unless there is something 'offensive' toward women in there (though I can't fathom it!), as Louise Anne seems to think that "The UK ladies might have spotted it because they are from the UK".
But there again, I'm sure there are those Americans who hate being described as Yanks? Especially those from the Southern States.......the Blue and the Grey (Gray!?) and all that, what what!

Anyway, why do you call trousers pants!? Pants are the things that you wear under your trousers!

 

[Otter]

Arrgh, Fiicka, you made me spray wine all over my keyboard!

 

[Yeps]

Anyway, why do you call trousers pants!? Pants are the things that you wear under your trousers!

Nah, those are underpants, because they go under pants. See? Our way is so logical.

 

[esteban68]

Flicka if you watch ' Hell on Wheels' there's a character in there they call Swede only he is Norweigan he even say it as a line to himself, so even then people were getting it all mixed up! Yes I did indeed forget Ingmar Bergman.

Still non the wiser re whats wrong with the thread guess I am just a dumb Brit!;-)

 

[ButteMT61]

Oh boy. This is entertaining. 7 pages and nobody can figure out why anyone is supposed to be offended! Love it. A true 21st century dilemma: what can one say that won't offend someone? Apparently, nothing.

 

[CinnamonCinders]

I don't wish to appear antagonistic, but I do hope that the reference to not studying "British" in schools in the UK but rather English literature and language is not suggesting that north Americans aren't speaking English.

I'd like to think that it is widely accepted that there are multiple dialects under the umbrella of the English language, from Enid Blyton "playground" English (which I happen to lean towards) to regional dialects that spread as far as American English.

I'd also like to think that given the company, anti-north-American sentiment would be unlikely in this space.

Just because there is a group of people in Patagonia speaking Welsh, probably with their own regional take on it, doesn't mean that it is any less Welsh for not being in Wales.

I have met many north Americans whose grasp of the English language, regardless of dialect, is far stronger than some "English" people. So I certainly hope this is not what is being insinuated in this cat and mouse game.

I would strongly suggest clarifying what exactly is offensive as it is hardly fair to not permit those who have caused offence to right their wrong when it is clear that they simply cannot fathom what it is that you are offended by.

As a UK lady, I fail to be offended by anything in the Beeb's article or by the posts in this thread. I have mentioned that I take umbrage with the term "ginger", which I feel has been well discussed with relevant vintage music to boot. I rather think it fascinating how vastly the English language can differ between regions. One person's cob is another's bread roll.

I'm simply grateful that the term "gin and tonic" seems to be universal, and on that note, I'm going to have one.

 

[ButteMT61]

I don't wish to appear antagonistic, but I do hope that the reference to not studying "British" in schools in the UK but rather English literature and language is not suggesting that north Americans aren't speaking English. I'd like to think that it is widely accepted that there are multiple dialects under the umbrella of the English language, from Enid Blyton "playground" English (which I happen to lean towards) to regional dialects that spread as far as American English. I'd also like to think that given the company, anti-north-American sentiment would be unlikely in this space. Just because there is a group of people in Patagonia speaking Welsh, probably with their own regional take on it, doesn't mean that it is any less Welsh for not being in Wales. I have met many north Americans whose grasp of the English language, regardless of dialect, is far stronger than some "English" people. So I certainly hope this is not what is being insinuated in this cat and mouse game.I would strongly suggest clarifying what exactly is offensive as it is hardly fair to not permit those who have caused offence to right their wrong when it is clear that they simply cannot fathom what it is that you are offended by. As a UK lady, I fail to be offended by anything in the Beeb's article or by the posts in this thread. I have mentioned that I take umbrage with the term "ginger", which I feel has been well discussed with relevant vintage music to boot. I rather think it fascinating how vastly the English language can differ between regions. One person's cob is another's bread roll.I'm simply grateful that the term "gin and tonic" seems to be universal, and on that note, I'm going to have one.

Brilliant.

 

[Louise Anne]

Yes I agree 7 pages and still no one can spot it.

It's now a little like not seeing the wood for the tree becuse you all got so obsessed with in a way with the British identity or what that is defined as, I do not know what it is and do not care that much in the way you think I do.
maybe in the UK I will say I am from Yorkshire that is only to help people know where I live, most people in the UK will know where Yorkshire is in relation to the country but not me town , that the same for a lot of people

If you read what I written somewhere along the line that I am British and ref to myself as been so. If I did not like British surly it logical for me not to use it to use it, if I am in Scotland maybe some one will say are you from England again no problem it would be a litle oddl for them to say are you British.

I sure a lot of Americans will use Britain or British or maybe if the know the accent well England again I have no problem with that may be it a little old fashion these day and GB is more modern.
So why not now go back and write 7 more pages about what you think it is.
I sure 55,000 000 people here in the UK would agree with my point so it's not about been British or not

I will say again I am British or English i am OK with been referred as been one or the other.

Again iIcannot understand why your taking 7 pages to work it out.