does anyone please know the height of the crown and the brim size on this hat?

[Fedord Spaniard]

this is the hat that Benjamin Siegel or "Bugsy" to others.. was wearin on the photo line up of the 1931 hotel franconia raid.

ive always liked this hat and one day would like to have it custom made. does any one know or have an idea of how tall the crown is or how wide is the brim and how much would it cost to have a hat made?

 

[kaosharper1]

My understanding is that hats of this era had 6" open crowns and brims of 2 3/8".

 

[carldelo]

It's relative

this is the hat that Benjamin Siegel or "Bugsy" to others.. was wearin on the photo line up of the 1931 hotel franconia raid.

ive always liked this hat and one day would like to have it custom made. does any one know or have an idea of how tall the crown is or how wide is the brim and how much would it cost to have a hat made?

The actual measurement is not as important as the size of the hat relative to the face and head of the wearer. Using calipers, I find the crown height is about the same as the distance from the pupil of the eye to the chin of Bugsy. So your hat's crown should be the same size as the distance from your pupil to your chin, plus or minus. Same idea with the brim and ribbon, measure them relative to the crown height. A custom hatter could probably reproduce that lid from the photo without too much trouble - a custom lid would probably run somewhere north of $300.

 

[Tomasso]

^^^

Good answer!

 

[carldelo]

Good answer!

Thanks Tomasso---

I didn't really spell it out, but measuring your face is pretty easy - get an easy-to-read ruler and look at your mug in the mirror. Another useful metric when sizing hats from photos is the interpupillary distance (I've been dying to use that word in a sentence for years now).

It looks to me like Bugsy's brim and ribbon both are almost exactly half the crown height. For my cocoanut, that would give a 5" crown, with 2.5" ribbon and brim, which seems about right, but I could never pull that hat off.

 

[Fedord Spaniard]

now that i look at it the crown does look atleast 5" in length. the brim could be between 2" - 2.5" i measure my face and it looks about the same height as Siegel's face was. i compared the measurement i got from you guys and it sounds about right. but ill take the picture to the hat maker when i get enough dough to have the hat made and have him compare too. thanks for the replies i got so far gentlemen.

 

[kaosharper1]

If you were to get a 6" open crowned hat, you could bash it to the height that is best for your face, but has the look of the hat in the picture.

I did that recently with an Art Fawcett. I wanted a hat with similar proportions to the one Bogie wore in the Maltese Falcon. He told me that hats of the period had generally 6" open crowns with 2 3/8" brims. By the late 1930s they bashed the hats pretty deep. So I copied Bogie's bash but proportioned it to my features. I also opted for a 2 1/2" brim to better suit my broad face.

In Bugsy's picture it looks like he left the crown high.

Any of the custom hatters would be able to make this hat for you from the picture.

 

[Fletch]

FTOY who don't know about the Franconia meeting, it happened Nov. 11, 1931, at the above-named hotel (now apartments) on 72nd St just off Central Park West.

Meyer Lansky had called every mob boss of Jewish ethnicity in the Eastern U.S. to propose - decree, really - that henceforth they would be cooperating with the Italian mob under Charlie Luciano, who had put an end to a bloody feud amongst Sicilian gangs not long before. Benny Siegel, close to Luciano and Lansky, was a key figure in this entente.

Someone apparently tipped off the law, because there was indeed a raid. Among the collars that night were Siegel, Louis Lepke, and four others.

 

[Fedord Spaniard]

FTOY who don't know about the Franconia meeting, it happened Nov. 11, 1931, at the above-named hotel (now apartments) on 72nd St just off Central Park West.

Meyer Lansky had called every mob boss of Jewish ethnicity in the Eastern U.S. to propose - decree, really - that henceforth they would be cooperating with the Italian mob under Charlie Luciano, who had put an end to a bloody feud amongst Sicilian gangs not long before. Benny Siegel, close to Luciano and Lansky, was a key figure in this entente.

Someone apparently tipped off the law, because there was indeed a raid. Among the collars that night were Siegel, Louis Lepke, and four others.

wow Fletch, i am impressed that you know your New York Mob history. the hotel was owned by Arnold "the Brain" Rothstein at the time and yea now its a co-op.

the nine arrested durin the raid were:

Joseph "Doc" Stacher


Benjamin "Bugsy" Siegel


Harry Tietlebaum


Harry "Big Greenie" Greenberg


Louis "Lepke" Buchalter


Jacob "Gurrah" Shapiro


Louis "Shadows" Kravitz


Hyman "Curly" Holtz


Philip "Little Farfel" Kavolick

All these guys were jewish mobsters and some of these guys were members of the Bug & Meyer Mob (headed by Ben Siegel and Meyer Lansky) back in thier lower east side days. And yes Siegel was the head of this meeting.

 

[handlebar bart]

this is the hat that Benjamin Siegel or "Bugsy" to others.. was wearin on the photo line up of the 1931 hotel franconia raid.

ive always liked this hat and one day would like to have it custom made. does any one know or have an idea of how tall the crown is or how wide is the brim and how much would it cost to have a hat made?

6" crown and 2 1/4"- 2 3/8" brim worked for me

 

[Fedord Spaniard]

6" crown and 2 1/4"- 2 3/8" brim worked for me

Nice hat, did you have it custom made?

 

[Colby Jack]

Lookin' good Bart...is that a V.S.?

 

[Tomasso]

.

the nine arrested durin the raid were:

Joseph "Doc" Stacher


Benjamin "Bugsy" Siegel


Harry Tietlebaum


Harry "Big Greenie" Greenberg


Louis "Lepke" Buchalter


Jacob "Gurrah" Shapiro


Louis "Shadows" Kravitz


Hyman "Curly" Holtz


Philip "Little Farfel" Kavolick

What, no nickname!?!



What kind of self respecting mobster operates sans moniker? :eusa_doh:

 

[handlebar bart]

Lookin' good Bart...is that a V.S.?

Thanks. That one is a Tumwater Hat Co. lid by Tonyb.

 

[Colby Jack]

TonyB does beautiful work!:eusa_clap :eusa_clap :eusa_clap

 

[Fedord Spaniard]

What, no nickname!?!



What kind of self respecting mobster operates sans moniker? :eusa_doh:

lol I dont know....the wiseguys didnt name themselves. You would have to ask the members of the Bug & Meyer Mob to give him one. lol