Shinobichi
Familiar Face
- Messages
- 73
- Location
- Burnaby BC
Hi ya.....I hope y'all can help me please! I have these pants that I need help dating and getting info on.
My hypothesis is that they are 1940's [or earlier?? ] Japanese because of the material, interior make , and the buttons.
The cuffs were not originally on the pants when I got them.
I would like some feedback from other more knowledgeable folk.
Here are some pics and other clues:
#1 The braces buttons and those on the fly, has the names ' OGINO' and 'HAKODATE' on it with a star symbol separating the two names.
'HAKODATE' was Japan's first city whose port was opened to foreign trade in 1854 as a result of Convention of Kanagawa, and used to be the most important port in northern Japan. Also, the city had been the biggest city in Hokkaido before the Great Hakodate Fire of 1934
and,
' OGINO' name : Japanese: meaning ‘reed plain’, of which Japan has many. This name is not common; it is found mostly in eastern Japan.
#2 The CLASPS for the pants has 'DEPONIRT ' and ' TRADE MARK ' with a 3 pointed crown symbol.
I understand that "Deponirt" is a German word used in the same way as the word "depose" in French or "eneret" in Danish. It is similar to our words "patent" or "registered design" and is sometimes abbreviated "dep."
Concerning antique porcelain dolls
" (abbreviated Depon. or Dep.) is a term that was used in Germany but actually originated in France. The various parts of what we commonly know as Germany each had their own laws for protecting manufacturer rights. In parts of Prussia (to the left of the river Rhine) for example, the according laws until 1840 were based on the older French laws from 1811. Hence deponirt had the same meaning as the French déposer, namely to deposit. If you know a little German and are wondering: deponirt is not the result of a typo, it is merely the older form of writing deponiert.
The term deponirt or an abbreviation thereof simply declared that the product was protected by law and that a respective claim of ownership of the design or trademark had been verified through the local authorities and archived there for further reference.
Imperial Germany took up until 1874 to officially introduce the so-called Reichsmarkengesetz, a law which united and simplified the various forms of registration used in different parts of Germany. Based on that law, the central imperial office for trademark registrations ⇒R.W.Z.R. was established in 1875; two years later, the different representatives also agreed on the Reichspatentgesetz which offered the same approach for patents, resulting in the founding of the Kaiserliches Patentamt for that cause.
All that said, never base a dating on the presence of a 'Dep.' addition alone. While this registration form became obsolete in Germany from 1875 onwards, it was still used elsewhere. On top of that, many manufacturers were reluctant to replace the well-known term with any other form of copyright notice as they feared that it would cause problems, some even continued to use the old marking until around 1890."~ PM&M [Resources / Vocabulary / deponirt]
My pants:
This is what others with vintage clothing online with the same DEPONIRT marking
#1 A seller on ebay has a pants listed as a true 1930's pants with the same markings as my pants. I have included his picture.
#2 Another person wrote about their vintage military pants,
"The clasp in the pants is marked DEPONIRT on one side{ which I understand is how some countries means registered} on the other side it is trade mark and a crown.", ~ U.S. Militaria Forum
I would appreciate all help in any info and dating!
PS Thanks to Sloan1874 , I read his old 2013 posting that helped me in posting my pics.
Thanks!
Shinobichi
My hypothesis is that they are 1940's [or earlier?? ] Japanese because of the material, interior make , and the buttons.
The cuffs were not originally on the pants when I got them.
I would like some feedback from other more knowledgeable folk.
Here are some pics and other clues:
#1 The braces buttons and those on the fly, has the names ' OGINO' and 'HAKODATE' on it with a star symbol separating the two names.
'HAKODATE' was Japan's first city whose port was opened to foreign trade in 1854 as a result of Convention of Kanagawa, and used to be the most important port in northern Japan. Also, the city had been the biggest city in Hokkaido before the Great Hakodate Fire of 1934
and,
' OGINO' name : Japanese: meaning ‘reed plain’, of which Japan has many. This name is not common; it is found mostly in eastern Japan.
#2 The CLASPS for the pants has 'DEPONIRT ' and ' TRADE MARK ' with a 3 pointed crown symbol.
I understand that "Deponirt" is a German word used in the same way as the word "depose" in French or "eneret" in Danish. It is similar to our words "patent" or "registered design" and is sometimes abbreviated "dep."
Concerning antique porcelain dolls
" (abbreviated Depon. or Dep.) is a term that was used in Germany but actually originated in France. The various parts of what we commonly know as Germany each had their own laws for protecting manufacturer rights. In parts of Prussia (to the left of the river Rhine) for example, the according laws until 1840 were based on the older French laws from 1811. Hence deponirt had the same meaning as the French déposer, namely to deposit. If you know a little German and are wondering: deponirt is not the result of a typo, it is merely the older form of writing deponiert.
The term deponirt or an abbreviation thereof simply declared that the product was protected by law and that a respective claim of ownership of the design or trademark had been verified through the local authorities and archived there for further reference.
Imperial Germany took up until 1874 to officially introduce the so-called Reichsmarkengesetz, a law which united and simplified the various forms of registration used in different parts of Germany. Based on that law, the central imperial office for trademark registrations ⇒R.W.Z.R. was established in 1875; two years later, the different representatives also agreed on the Reichspatentgesetz which offered the same approach for patents, resulting in the founding of the Kaiserliches Patentamt for that cause.
All that said, never base a dating on the presence of a 'Dep.' addition alone. While this registration form became obsolete in Germany from 1875 onwards, it was still used elsewhere. On top of that, many manufacturers were reluctant to replace the well-known term with any other form of copyright notice as they feared that it would cause problems, some even continued to use the old marking until around 1890."~ PM&M [Resources / Vocabulary / deponirt]
My pants:
This is what others with vintage clothing online with the same DEPONIRT marking
#1 A seller on ebay has a pants listed as a true 1930's pants with the same markings as my pants. I have included his picture.
#2 Another person wrote about their vintage military pants,
"The clasp in the pants is marked DEPONIRT on one side{ which I understand is how some countries means registered} on the other side it is trade mark and a crown.", ~ U.S. Militaria Forum
I would appreciate all help in any info and dating!
PS Thanks to Sloan1874 , I read his old 2013 posting that helped me in posting my pics.
Thanks!
Shinobichi
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